Outlaw Gloves? Not fair to former players?

[NanuqoftheNorth]

Quote

Al Davis was famous for his catchphrase, “Just win, baby,” though some Raiders of the ’ 70s and ’80s might have taken the owner's words a bit too literally. 

That’s one way to explain why some players smeared their bodies with dark yellow substance before games. “Stickum” was said to enhance the potential for sure-handed receptions—Oakland Hall of Famer Fred Biletnikoff dabbed the substance on his socks so he could easily reach down for a shmear—or for members of the secondary elongated the bump in bump-and-run coverage. Though numerous players on plenty of teams lathered up, Stickum is is probably most associated with Raiders defensive back Lester Hayes, who won the 1980 NFL Defensive Player of the Year award with 13 interceptions, then added five more en route to Super Bowl XV. Hayes smeared a half a jar (about nine ounces) on his body each game, the honey-like goo dripped from his forearms, hands and uniform. 

Read more here:  http://mmqb.si.com/2014/07/15/nfl-history-in-95-objects-stickum

 

[Moorgan]

Just now, stankowalski said:

Yeah I am kind of like that too.  It's their body, they get paid millions of dollars to do what they do so let them wreck it if they want to.  Only problem with that though (and it ALWAYS comes back to this) are the kids.  That poo would filter down to the colleges and high schools.  And 99% of those in high schools would be wrecking their bodies for nothing because there's only so many spots on an NFL team.

Yeah you're right unless you've ever seen bigger, faster, stronger. I think PEDs have gotten a bad rap and we don't know what they actually do. I know they would have to be used responsibly and that wouldn't translate down to kids. So we're left with potentially less healthy human beings.

I truly believe most everyone could benefit from a safe amount of PEDs. But we're too irresponsible as a society to do much with moderation.

[Jangler]

These are the official gloves, yes?  And yet drops happen....so you still need skill to catch the ball.

[Swedish Butt-Whistle]

30 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

Yeah you're right unless you've ever seen bigger, faster, stronger. I think PEDs have gotten a bad rap and we don't know what they actually do. I know they would have to be used responsibly and that wouldn't translate down to kids. So we're left with potentially less healthy human beings.

I truly believe most everyone could benefit from a safe amount of PEDs. But we're too irresponsible as a society to do much with moderation.

It's pretty horrible, even under supervision if you have genetic predisposition to heart disease. Not sure it's really necessary, just a short cut for youth. Only really viable for those older than 35 y.o. 

[Frizzy350]

1 hour ago, electro's horse said:

i mean even jerry rice admitted to using stick'em.

Players will cheat every which way they can. If they really want to even the playing field they'll fix the rules and start testing for HGH. 

So did Biletnikoff, and he was known for some of the most ridiculous catches ever.

[Frizzy350]

1 hour ago, stankowalski said:

Yeah I am kind of like that too.  It's their body, they get paid millions of dollars to do what they do so let them wreck it if they want to.  Only problem with that though (and it ALWAYS comes back to this) are the kids.  That poo would filter down to the colleges and high schools.  And 99% of those in high schools would be wrecking their bodies for nothing because there's only so many spots on an NFL team.

Bingo.

It would make it so the only way you could even compete at the college level, you'd have to be juicing.  There is enough risk in football already, this would be a bad move.

Also I don't think it would enhance the fan's entertainment.  Sure guys would be a bit bigger, stronger and faster, but that would effect every player and in the end everything would sort of cancel itself out.

[Frizzy350]

1 hour ago, Moorgan said:

Yeah you're right unless you've ever seen bigger, faster, stronger. I think PEDs have gotten a bad rap and we don't know what they actually do. I know they would have to be used responsibly and that wouldn't translate down to kids. So we're left with potentially less healthy human beings.

I truly believe most everyone could benefit from a safe amount of PEDs. But we're too irresponsible as a society to do much with moderation.

The most concerning issue is that most PEDs are testosterone.  When you get it via injections (or pills, w/e) your body stops producing it on it's own as the body gets more than enough from the PEDs.  Then when you go off the PEDs, some weird stuff can happen now that your body will no longer naturally produce the appropriate testosterone.

There are other issues as well.  Massive muscle growth can cause flexibility issues leading to injury for instance.

[Moorgan]

5 minutes ago, Frizzy350 said:

The most concerning issue is that most PEDs are testosterone.  When you get it via injections (or pills, w/e) your body stops producing it on it's own as the body gets more than enough from the PEDs.  Then when you go off the PEDs, some weird stuff can happen now that your body will no longer naturally produce the appropriate testosterone.

There are other issues as well.  Massive muscle growth can cause flexibility issues leading to injury for instance.

Hence the doctor overseeing it. You're right about managing the effects. But they can be managed. Countering estrogen is a thing of the past if you do what's prescribed. I'm not ignoring any of that. It quotable be included in the pro game. The problem is it wouldn't be included in high school.

[Frizzy350]

26 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

Hence the doctor overseeing it. You're right about managing the effects. But they can be managed. Countering estrogen is a thing of the past if you do what's prescribed. I'm not ignoring any of that. It quotable be included in the pro game. The problem is it wouldn't be included in high school.

Maybe not in high school but certainly in college.  Let's be real here, every NFL team wants and EXPECTS their first round draft pick to be an immediate starter.  This is going to immediately pressure college players who want a shot in the NFL into getting their hands on it.

Also, what is the pay-off?  For soldiers I get it, they are paid to kill, die and win wars.  In certain scenarios the performance enhancement is the difference between life and death, success or failure... the long term risk is worth it as the short term penalty is the worst possible outcome.

But for a game (a very serious and awesome game, mind you), what is the point?

I'm positive there are plenty of players in the NFL juicing that don't get caught.

Players are constantly getting bigger, stronger, faster with or without steroids anyway.

Plus I kind of like the illusion that if you work hard enough, anyone can master the craft that they play professionally.  It can be inspiring, especially for kids.  I'd hate for that message to change to "if you build your body in a lab, you can maybe play pro sports".

I would however be totally fine for allowing PEDs to be involved in injury recovery.  If you could safely heal a torn ACL in 6 weeks instead of 6 months, that would be spectacular for the fans, owners, coaches and players.

[Moorgan]

10 minutes ago, Frizzy350 said:

Maybe not in high school but certainly in college.  Let's be real here, every NFL team wants and EXPECTS their first round draft pick to be an immediate starter.  This is going to immediately pressure college players who want a shot in the NFL into getting their hands on it.

Also, what is the pay-off?  For soldiers I get it, they are paid to kill, die and win wars.  In certain scenarios the performance enhancement is the difference between life and death, success or failure... the long term risk is worth it as the short term penalty is the worst possible outcome.

But for a game (a very serious and awesome game, mind you), what is the point?

I'm positive there are plenty of players in the NFL juicing that don't get caught.

Players are constantly getting bigger, stronger, faster with or without steroids anyway.

Plus I kind of like the illusion that if you work hard enough, anyone can master the craft that they play professionally.  It can be inspiring, especially for kids.  I'd hate for that message to change to "if you build your body in a lab, you can maybe play pro sports".

I would however be totally fine for allowing PEDs to be involved in injury recovery.  If you could safely heal a torn ACL in 6 weeks instead of 6 months, that would be spectacular for the fans, owners, coaches and players.

First of all, PEDs are allowed for surgeries already. As far as the message to kids, I agree. It's mixed on so many levels it might as well as be a rave. As far as efficacy, it works fantastically and there will be a day when we have to come to terms with it.

[stirs]

What if the gloves were made with small extensions at the end of each finger?  This could greatly enhance every players chance of catching almost anything.  Extensions be good?

[KendrickPanther]

While we are at it let's remove defensive holding, QB protection below the knees, make catches not count if they touch the ground, bring back astro turf and spearing. Hell, make them play in leather boots with homemade studs, it's not fair that these guys get to run so fast. We should return the football to it's original shape, QBs have it too easy these days.

 

Fairness to players in the past has nothing to do with this. We cannot cherry pick stuff like that. I will say I admired Plaxico Burress playing gloveless in the playoffs in his Steelers days.

 

 

[Frizzy350]

8 minutes ago, Moorgan said:

First of all, PEDs are allowed for surgeries already. As far as the message to kids, I agree. It's mixed on so many levels it might as well as be a rave. As far as efficacy, it works fantastically and there will be a day when we have to come to terms with it.

I've seen players suspended for using PEDs to speed recovery. I'd be fine with supervised PEDs to get players back on the field.

In general, I still just don't see the point, and I've yet to get an answer as to why you would want PEDs.  It isn't going to make anyone more money.  It isn't going to make the game more or less exciting, all strength, size and speed is relative to other players on the field.  If WRs are now able to run a 3.8 40, DBs will be able to as well, it really isn't going to change the game if instituted.

I guess it might be the first stepping stone for Centaurs to play football.  Now THAT would be awesome.

[stirs]

What if a QB wanted to have the balls inflated so that it fit their hands better for throwing?