knowing everything you know now, who and when would you have replaced jake

[Raskle]

According to Williams himself, he said the light bulb went off for him when Vinnie Testaverde pulled him aside and told him to get in shape so he could play to his potential. Williams took the words to heart and the next season, as star was born. Maybe you know somebody that can twitter your boy Matt Moore and share with him a few inspirational words because as it stands right now, the guy that was playing in the 4th quarter yesterday is not ready to QB this team to the playoffs.

Really? And you know this how??

Basing it on the only starts he has had, he led us to victories over 2 of 3 playoff teams (and if it hadn't been the Cowpukes and the refs, would have been three), while looking poised and confident.

Are you're basing this off yesterday's gametime he had? How well do you think any QB is going to look when his team is already 28 points down, with a defense that's been blitzing all day long at will, and just pinning their ears back for the final quarter?

Are you're basing this off preseason? Some, including Jake, look better in actual games than meaningless preseason and practice. I'll take game performance over that any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

As for Williams' comment, what else would he have said? He's a company man, and totes the line well. Think he would have said, Fox is too stubborn to start me, even though I'm better? No, he's going to shoulder the responsibility for himself, and state that he needed time to have the lightbulb go off. Although, I'll digress and state that I really, really, REALLY wish Vinny had come here to be out QB coach. That would have been amazing.

[SmootsDaddy89]

Jake's crappy 2006 season and injuries, as well as the 2007 season where he was gone most of the season should have, oh I don't know, maybe sparked an interest in a QB in the 2008 draft, considering we could have had Flacco and Otah easily.

[thefuzz]

Picking up Pennington for nothing two years ago would have been the best choice.

He has questionable talent at the WR in Miami and had more TD passes than Jake, and fewer INT"s.

Hell he had as many INT's last season as Jake has had the last TWO GAMES.

[Matt Foley]

so basically your arguement is we should have drafted players that have sucked ass on other teams because they might not have sucked ass here ?

That's your strawman version of my argument. My argument is the Panthers should have drafted a first day quarterback two or three years ago and started grooming him to be Jake's replacement. And this didn't take a lot of foresight, either. Like I said, Keyshawn said it on espn's draft day coverage while he was still on the team.

Fiz is saying "in hindsight, Hurney had no other options."

I'm saying he did. There are several quarterbacks the Panthers could have drafted, put behind Delhomme for a year or two, and right now would have been a really good time to hand the reins over to that kid.

[Miaoww]

Good thread Fiz. My suggestion would be Troy Smith in the fifth round of the 2007 draft. He'd have had time to sit a year or two, learn the offence, and get comfortable with the speed of the NFL. Not that he's a superstar, but he wouldn't need to be.

That said I've always liked what I've seen in Matt Moore - he's generally looked competent and he's been around the team long enough to know the system. At this point I really don't see the harm in handing him the reins and seeing what he can do. Either he wins the job or we know we have to address the position in the offseason.

[pepaw]

I would have tried flacco over stewart. Granted he wouldn't have flourished like he did in Baltimore probably, but he would be better then the poo we have now. We could have gotten him and otah and an avg rb in the later rounds.

I also think Everett will be a 10 sack player but don't agree trading our first rounder next year with our upcoming schedule this season and an aging qb with 3 possible QBs in next years draft. John Fox's one weakness IMO has been his inability to see when his players should go this time it may cost him his job. But I wouldn't cut him after this year.

[jpniner]

I want a franchise QB like the Falcons got with Matt Ryan, that you know will be a stud for the next 10 plus years like Peyton Manning, so this isn't a constant discussion. Plus we all know, the elite teams have elite QB's, Jake types are not Elite.

[cgarsmoker]

Really? And you know this how??

Basing it on the only starts he has had, he led us to victories over 2 of 3 playoff teams (and if it hadn't been the Cowpukes and the refs, would have been three), while looking poised and confident.

Are you're basing this off yesterday's gametime he had? How well do you think any QB is going to look when his team is already 28 points down, with a defense that's been blitzing all day long at will, and just pinning their ears back for the final quarter?

Are you're basing this off preseason? Some, including Jake, look better in actual games than meaningless preseason and practice. I'll take game performance over that any day of the week and twice on Sundays.

As for Williams' comment, what else would he have said? He's a company man, and totes the line well. Think he would have said, Fox is too stubborn to start me, even though I'm better? No, he's going to shoulder the responsibility for himself, and state that he needed time to have the lightbulb go off. Although, I'll digress and state that I really, really, REALLY wish Vinny had come here to be out QB coach. That would have been amazing.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nfl/article/2008-12-17/testaverdes-advice-helps-deangelo-williams-breakout-season

Here are a few quotes you may like.....

"I think he's probably impacted my season the most this year than anybody because of the conversation that we had before he left," Williams said Wednesday.

And while Williams teased Testaverde for his supposed easygoing lifestyle in retirement, Williams believes their talk about commitment and work ethic at the end of last season is the reason Williams has gone from a backup to somebody his teammates feel should have been selected to the Pro Bowl.

"We had a lengthy conversation and everything he said to me made perfect sense," said Williams, Carolina's first-round pick in 2006. "From the film room down to work ethic and everything of that nature. He really left me with some things that really touched me and stayed on my heart, as you can tell from this season."

Williams wouldn't reveal the exact details of the talk, and Testaverde couldn't be reached on Wednesday. But quarterback Jake Delhomme believes Williams has benefited greatly from the advice of the 21-year veteran who was well known for being in top condition and well prepared for every game.

"Last year, Vinny talked to DeAngelo about that, about, 'Hey, when you practice, run. Finish runs,"' Delhomme said. "Because Vinny had all those years and knew how to prepare. He was a tireless worker. He prepared extremely hard. I thought it was great that Vinny did that, because obviously, he saw something in DeAngelo."

This year after every running play at practice, Williams runs all the way to the end zone, no matter where on the field the play started from. Williams acknowledged he worked harder in the offseason and is in better condition. He's stronger, too, which has made him harder to tackle.

That seems to be a little more than towing the company line by Williams but I think it makes my point regarding why Deangelo was behind Foster that season.

As far as Moore is concerned, I just don't think he has "it". I haven't seen anything that make me think - this guy is going to be a play maker. I would love to be wrong and Moore turn out to be the next Tony Romo. I say that because I heard him compared to Romo when we picked him up from Dallas. I'm not a perfect judge of talent but either way if Delhomme keeps going like he has the last game, Moore might get that chance to make me eat crow. I'm not a big fan of crow but I'd gladly eat a double serving of it if the Panthers got a solid young QB that gives us hope for the future.

[SmootsDaddy89]

What you need to do with a quarterback is let him watch a guy like Delhomme

Jesus Christ no. If we had taken Flacco I would want him on the sidelines blindfolded everytime Jake and the offense took the field. Or preferably locked in a room somewhere without television where he'd be unable to pick up any of Jake's bad habits.

[Miaoww]

Rogers over Davis isn't too shabby.

Edwards over Johnson is a decent arguement

However it is debatable on how Edwards would fair here.

Except I love Davis and I can't stand Rodgers' 'tache. Edwards isn't anything worth fretting about - he's competent, nothing more.

Where's the Chris Leak love?

[jpniner]

did we even work Flaco out and seriously consider him in the 08 draft? While knowing that Jake was aging and coming off an injury few recover from at that?

If not, they truly had their heads in the sand on the QB situation and their opinions of Jake.

[Miaoww]

I want a franchise QB like the Falcons got with Matt Ryan, that you know will be a stud for the next 10 plus years like Peyton Manning, so this isn't a constant discussion. Plus we all know, the elite teams have elite QB's, Jake types are not Elite.

Of course we want an elite QB, they're just very hard to come by.

As for Flacco, was he even that highly rated when the Ravens drafted him? I thought it was a reach based upon the fact he's a giant and has a rocket arm. I think he surpassed all expectations last season.

[Matt Foley]

Of course we want an elite QB, they're just very hard to come by.

They're not as hard to come by as you might think. It's just that most teams screw them up royally.

Right now Aaron Rodgers is one of the top 10 QBs in the league. What if they had thrown him out there as a rookie? He'd be out of the game by now.

The quarterback position is really unlike anything else in sports. You nab one who has all the tools, and then you teach him your system in the film room and on the practice field, because he won't learn anything on his back.

Trust me, I know. Lifelong Rams fan. It wasn't until Warner came along that we even had a guy that lasted more than three or four years.

[SmootsDaddy89]

Just when you think fat chicks can't get anymore useless, there's one defending Jake on my friend's facebook status.