knowing everything you know now, who and when would you have replaced jake

[Kurb]

DEFEND YOUR AWFUL OPINIONS I WANT BLOOD

.

:lmao:

[Matt Foley]

peyton, brady, and mcnabb were all drafted before Fox and Hurney arrived, and the Panthers obviously weren't in a position to draft one of the 2004 QBs following the super bowl. if we're going to criticize them for things done in 1998, 99, and 2000, then let's just throw up our hands and build ULTIMATE DRAFTS FROM 1995 ON!

none of the other elite QBs were realistic options.

I believe that many of the QB busts would not have been busts had the team given the kid a year or two to learn the position. Couch, Leaf, Carr...all of these guys had Manning type talent, but got thrown to the passrushing wolves too soon. You can coach a lot of things into a quarterback. But it's hard to coach self-preservation out of them. The Panthers should have drafted a stud (Keyshawn even said this on ESPN's draft coverage that one year, and got released because of it), and let him learn ala Aaron Rodgers did in Green Bay. Or Steve McNair did in Houston. Or Tom Brady did in New England.

[Fiz]

I believe that many of the QB busts would not have been busts had the team given the kid a year or two to learn the position. Couch, Leaf, Carr...all of these guys had Manning type talent, but got thrown to the passrushing wolves too soon. You can coach a lot of things into a quarterback.

why in the world would you bring up tim couch or ryan leaf?

also why in the world are you bringing up david carr? even if the panthers had a chance to draft him (they didn't) no one with any self respect would suggest Carr over Peppers.

The Panthers should have drafted a stud (Keyshawn even said this on ESPN's draft coverage that one year, and got released because of it), and let him learn ala Aaron Rodgers did in Green Bay. Or Steve McNair did in Houston. Or Tom Brady did in New England.

you're really struggling with history here aren't you

[Mesmer]

The point really is that there's no way that you can say "Oh we should have replaced Jake in 2005". Of course that's ridiculous.

What's really important here is that everyone knew that Jake wasn't going to last as a good starter for much longer. I think even in 2004 and 2005, people realized that Jake was a good, serviceable starter, but not some kind of franchise player at QB where the position is locked down for the next decade. Not only with his ability, but also his age.

The thing is, now that Jake is done, and he's lost his mojo.. there's nobody back there to step up. Nobody. It's the same thing at WR. Who's gonna start when Moose finally calls it quits? What about defensive line? What happened to the 2003 best defensive line in football? There's only one player remaining from that line, sure, but they are nowhere near that today. Rucker was never replaced, and Jenkins and Buckner were never really adequately replaced either. Kemo was alright as a run stuffer, but not much else, and Lewis is clearly a rotation player.

You watch, when people get dinged on the OL this year, see who steps in. We lost our depth there and the team should have some young guys that are ready for some light work when someone goes down for a game or two. I have my doubts here as well.

All this said, I know this is about QBs, and I know this is about defending the FO and saying that replacing Jake before now would have been idiotic. The problem is, it's not always about getting rid of one guy and getting a new guy. You've got to be grooming guys behind your starters at all times. This is one major area where the coaching staff/front office fails. It's always about patching holes on a sinking ship, rather than just building a better a ship before setting sail.

[Matt Foley]

why in the world would you bring up tim couch or ryan leaf?

Because the biggest argument against building around a quarterback is that you never know what you're going to get, even in the first round.

also why in the world are you bringing up david carr? even if the panthers had a chance to draft him (they didn't) no one with any self respect would suggest Carr over Peppers.

And yet, everyone thought the Texans were fools for going with the DE over the QB or RB stud. The thing is you can put Julius out there and he can make plays right away. Go get him, Julius. What you need to do with a quarterback is let him watch a guy like Delhomme or Favre or Bledsoe for a while, pick the veteran's brain instead of scrambling your own.

By this time, the Panthers could have drafted a couple of QBs on the first day of the draft, instead of going with Keary Colbert, Richard Marshall, Dwayne Jarrett, etc., etc., etc. Second wide receiver is becoming the black hole on Panthers draft day. You're asking the question "name me one quarterback who was worth it?" My answer is there have been several, but they have failed in the NFL because teams out them out there too quickly. Look at Detroit and the Jets. Two more teams begging for disaster.

[Kurb]

so basically your arguement is we should have drafted players that have sucked ass on other teams because they might not have sucked ass here ?

[Fiz]

Because the biggest argument against building around a quarterback is that you never know what you're going to get, even in the first round.

so wait, have you changed your argument here? are you lilting without direction? are you sinking? WHO CAN TELL?

By this time, the Panthers could have drafted a couple of QBs on the first day of the draft, instead of going with Keary Colbert, Richard Marshall, Dwayne Jarrett, etc., etc., etc. Second wide receiver is becoming the black hole on Panthers draft day. You're asking the question "name me one quarterback who was worth it?" My answer is there have been several, but they have failed in the NFL because teams out them out there too quickly. Look at Detroit and the Jets. Two more teams begging for disaster.

okay so you're just saying that the panthers could have spent a first day pick on a young QB instead of one of the players that ended up being a bust even though no one stands out from that time as a success and magically they wouldn't end up like stefan lefors.

great argument meat way to shun reality can't wait to see your next alex jones rant

[cgarsmoker]

When Jake got hurt and we had to resort to Vinnie Testaverde should have been the wake up call that our cupboard was pretty bare at the QB position. I'm not somebody that says we should have gotten rid of Jake already.....I'm saying that John Fox hasn't made any serious effort to upgrade that position. The biggest splash was signing David Carr (who was a bust) and that's the chance you take when you sign QB's. Some will work out and some will bust but you have to keep looking. Jake hasn't even had any serious competition in camp over the years. I understand Brady, Rivers, Brees, and Manning are basically ordained starters but Jake isn't at that level - but he is ordained at QB and untouchable under Fox. If we had a RB with 5 fumbles a game or a LT giving up 5 sacks a game, somebody should be looking to improve that position in the off season. Once we signed Jake, the Panthers essentially stopped looking and said Jake is the man and now that is all we have.

BTW don't tell me about Matt Moore.....He couldn't beat out McCown to be the backup the past 2 years. When is the magic light going to go off and make him premium passer? Maybe a couple more years running the Panther scout team will be all he needs. Yeah right.....

[CarolinaSock]

Still waiting to here why Rodgers over Davis would have been a bad idea.

[Raskle]

BTW don't tell me about Matt Moore.....He couldn't beat out McCown to be the backup the past 2 years. When is the magic light going to go off and make him premium passer? Maybe a couple more years running the Panther scout team will be all he needs. Yeah right.....

Yeah, and Williams couldn't beat out Foster. The lightbulb just didn't go off for him, right? Get real... Fox is a known full-supporter of his Vets. It's one of the things that makes him both a good coach and a bad coach, but a players' coach nonetheless.

joe Flacco would have been coached by Mike McCoy.

I think I threw up a little in my mouth over that one. What a scary thought for a Monday!!!!

[d-run]

Still waiting to here why Rodgers over Davis would have been a bad idea.

or Trent Edwards over Charles Johnson

[Kurb]

Rogers over Davis isn't too shabby.

Edwards over Johnson is a decent arguement

However it is debatable on how Edwards would fair here.

[cgarsmoker]

Yeah, and Williams couldn't beat out Foster. The lightbulb just didn't go off for him, right? Get real... Fox is a known full-supporter of his Vets. It's one of the things that makes him both a good coach and a bad coach, but a players' coach nonetheless.

I think I threw up a little in my mouth over that one. What a scary thought for a Monday!!!!

According to Williams himself, he said the light bulb went off for him when Vinnie Testaverde pulled him aside and told him to get in shape so he could play to his potential. Williams took the words to heart and the next season, as star was born. Maybe you know somebody that can twitter your boy Matt Moore and share with him a few inspirational words because as it stands right now, the guy that was playing in the 4th quarter yesterday is not ready to QB this team to the playoffs.

[Mr. Scot]

I believe that many of the QB busts would not have been busts had the team given the kid a year or two to learn the position. Couch, Leaf, Carr...all of these guys had Manning type talent, but got thrown to the passrushing wolves too soon. You can coach a lot of things into a quarterback. But it's hard to coach self-preservation out of them. The Panthers should have drafted a stud (Keyshawn even said this on ESPN's draft coverage that one year, and got released because of it), and let him learn ala Aaron Rodgers did in Green Bay. Or Steve McNair did in Houston. Or Tom Brady did in New England.

I favor that approach. But in fairness up until this season we had Mike McCoy