WCO, Coryell, E-P....

[Razeyfingers]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

I don't think this offense is unique enough to warrant its own recognition anymore than what Brady does in New England.  With offenses becoming amalgamations of different systems it is likely even inaccurate to call them a WCO or a Coryell system given most teams use elements of several systems. So no I don't think that there will be the Shula. Still I think that more OCs may start to try and maximize their system to fit their personnel instead of trying to fit their personnel into their system.  But that requires teams to be consistent with their coordinators and stick with guys instead of dumping them  for the new best thing. I was watching the game last night and was amazed at how many different coaches, GMs, and changes they have had in Cleveland over the past 7 years. No wonder they suck every year. No continuity at all.

The philosophy of our offense is more Coryell than it is WO or anything else. Its not really important what you call it regardless I think since it is such an amalgamation as you said. Still, the offense is based on the primary tactic of stretching vertical threats by using power run tools to set them up.

[panthers55]

24 minutes ago, Razeyfingers said:

The philosophy of our offense is more Coryell than it is WO or anything else. Its not really important what you call it regardless I think since it is such an amalgamation as you said. Still, the offense is based on the primary tactic of stretching vertical threats by using power run tools to set them up.

It is the numbering system and route trees, play action passing, a strong ground game to set up passing, vertical routes, and other considerations which make it as you say more Coryell than WCO which relies on timing routes, throwing to spots, using the short passing game as your primary running game, yards after the catch, etc.  As you note it is a mixture of systems but does have the basic philosophy of a Coryell based system.

[mbarbour21]

It's a very hard offense to defend, and even harder to duplicate. Like mentioned several times, Cam is truly one of a kind. He has the ability to run up the middle or around the edges; or pass for 300+ yards. Stand strong in the pocket under pressure. Dink and dunk, or deep pass. All that rolled into one person is VERY rare. There isn't a QB in this league right now that could pull it off this well. So much to account for each play. Very hard to defend. 

[h0llywood]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

The EP is not a run based version of the WCO offense. It differs both in philosophy and play calling and is rather robust including most offenses not classified as a WCO or Coryell system. 

And Weiss helped develop the NE version of the EP but it existed before him and they are not synonymous. If you look at New England they run different schemes based on their personnel more so than a dedication to one system or another. 

I didn't say it is a run based system, I said it was originally a run based offense which has evolved into what it is today. Ron Erhardt coined the saying "you throw to score, you run to win." 

 

[h0llywood]

1 hour ago, panthers55 said:

The EP is not a run based version of the WCO offense. It differs both in philosophy and play calling and is rather robust including most offenses not classified as a WCO or Coryell system. 

And Weiss helped develop the NE version of the EP but it existed before him and they are not synonymous. If you look at New England they run different schemes based on their personnel more so than a dedication to one system or another. 

and I agree with everything else you said

[PhillyB]

4 hours ago, Cyberjag said:

Frankly, I think it's one that could make The Golden Calf of Bristol look like an NFL QB.

[panthers55]

2 minutes ago, h0llywood said:

I didn't say it is a run based system, I said it was originally a run based offense which has evolved into what it is today. Ron Erhardt coined the saying "you throw to score, you run to win." 

 

All offenses including the original WCO offense were run based. Until the 80s all offenses were primarily run based.  The EP system was designed for cold weather and was run based then and is still that now. New England who is often thought of as a passing team still ran the ball roughly 40-45% of the time. This year they have run the ball the least in a long time due to their current personnel.  But our system in 2008 where our backs both ran for over 1000 yards was an EP system.

[h0llywood]

9 minutes ago, panthers55 said:

All offenses including the original WCO offense were run based. Until the 80s all offenses were primarily run based.  The EP system was designed for cold weather and was run based then and is still that now. New England who is often thought of as a passing team still ran the ball roughly 40-45% of the time. This year they have run the ball the least in a long time due to their current personnel.  But our system in 2008 where our backs both ran for over 1000 yards was an EP system.

Right Jeff Davidson. One would not really correlate the Panthers offense with EP as Tom Brady does it so well and that is the standard.

[panthers55]

3 hours ago, h0llywood said:

Right Jeff Davidson. One would not really correlate the Panthers offense with EP as Tom Brady does it so well and that is the standard.

That is the thing about a system. There is no one way to do it or even a right way. Just a way that works for your personnel and ones that don't.  Sometimes due to injury to key players you even have to change horses somewhat in the middle of the stream. 

[Razeyfingers]

2 hours ago, panthers55 said:

That is the thing about a system. There is no one way to do it or even a right way. Just a way that works for your personnel and ones that don't.  Sometimes due to injury to key players you even have to change horses somewhat in the middle of the stream. 

Well, I really like our way the best. Controlling clock and picking and choosing when we want to take risks is much better than relying on 5 to 10 yard slants and dumping the ball off to Ryan Matthews while crossing your fingers. Kelly launches undersized guys at monsters 70 snaps a game and they wonder why that team is not on the same page as the coach.

 

-Hey, Desean, I know youre 180 pounds but would you go across the middle 10 times a game for me

--uhm No coach.

-No worries I'll run sweep plays with DeMarco Murry

 

 

Our way minimizes risk and maximizes big plays. Wow, 55, I am glad you were right about Shula, man.

 

[davos]

Some of the more advanced EPs as mentioned can have more specified role positions.  Nowadays, a lot of teams have kind of found a new middle ground between systems and philosophies.  I think the perspective mentioned earlier about most teams having systems that adapt to players is huge.  In today's NFL, that tailoring can be more crucial than a base system. 

We have elements of the E-P but Shula integrates an AC philosophy with some different looks.  We're a time eating power football offense that throws in the seams, attacks when necessary, and out of the Pistol a lot so we've got a really cool offense IMO.  NFL coaches all running these hybrid offenses with Pistol owe a lot to Chris Ault. 

As little as it means: I'll call us a Coryell-Option haha 

[@bonafidebanter]

I loved how Cam's first 3 TD's against the Washington Racial Slurs were the same play. A form of spider 2-Y banana! I was rolling!

[Ivan The Awesome]

11 hours ago, London Loves Luke said:

I mean you're more than welcome to try it if you find a 6'5" 250lb laser-arm QB who can run a 4.6sec 40 to run it with. Otherwise be prepared to power run your qb in an all body cast because he's not getting through the season without breaking a few bones.

Cam ran a 4.5.

[L-TownCat]

Newton no huddle under center takes the snap fakes quick pass to Ginn, turns and executes play fake to Tolbert, snaps his head around finding Olsen for just a second before finally whipping his head all the way to the left firing a laser to Funchess for a first down.

 

read it until it dawns on you that very very few can pull this off.

Then remember that the defense still has to worry about the scramble.

/jizz