Is star regressing or are injuries to blame?

[MadHatter]

10 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

Title speak for itself. Not that I'm am calling for his head or anything but, it is clear he is not the same dominate force we are use to him being the last few years. He is eating up blocks as well as ever but that penetration and winning against the double team isn't there this year. 

 

So is this what we should expect for the rest of his career? Have injures robbed him of what was once a bright future? Or will we see a return to form next year? What say you?

I think the real issue is that you do not understand the job of a NT.  He is NOT a pass rusher.  He is a space eater.

And....he is performing at a very high level at that role.

[MadHatter]

After reading the Original Post, I think we may have solved one of life's great mysteries.......I think we might now know who PU really is.

[tiger7_88]

10 hours ago, micnificent28 said:

Title speak for itself. Not that I'm am calling for his head or anything but, it is clear he is not the same dominate force we are use to him being the last few years. He is eating up blocks as well as ever but that penetration and winning against the double team isn't there this year. 

So is this what we should expect for the rest of his career? Have injures robbed him of what was once a bright future? Or will we see a return to form next year? What say you?

 

I'm assuming you haven't been watching him play this year?

[Bronn]

tbqh it is hard to distinguish which star shines the brightest in a galaxy full of stars...

[Bartin]

8 hours ago, Marguide said:

Those of you saying that Star keeps double teams off KK are wrong, I'm sorry. KK has consistently faced double teams all year.

Star is a good player. KK is a difference maker. Given the choice of only keeping one on a 2nd contract, KK is to me a no brainer choice.

It's such a misnomer that Star takes up double teams in the pass rush. He doesn't. When they talk about NT's eating up blocks they are referring to Star keeping the G and C from getting to the second level in the running game so Luke and TD don't have to shed blocks and are free to make plays.

Kawann's success really doesn't have that much to do with Star.

[Davidson Deac II]

11 hours ago, Montsta said:

I actually disagree. Our run D might not look great on paper, but most of the runs I remember going for good yardage didn't go between the guards. They are usually bounced outside if memory serves me. A lot of time out LB's get picked on the outside runs. The few times they have gone up middle I can recall they were basically stuffed at the line and the shimmied out of it and broke a decent gain outside. But then I watch games in a fog of IPA's and habanero wings so I'm not the best person to write the history of Panthers football. 

Seems to me that most of the big runs have been cut backs and outside or inside didn't really matter.  Or maybe the big run by Philly/Matthews is skewing my memory just a bit.  But rb's cutting back once our linebackers commit to pursuit seems to have been a problem for us for a year or two now. 

[Dave Gettleman's Shorts]

I guess you guys forgotten about the Sione Fua and Terrell Mcclain era

[TheNewStandard]

16 hours ago, TheNewStandard said:

That pretty much says it all. Short is having the year he's having because of Star being double teamed in lots of plays.

Man I hope we can keep both of these guys in Carolina. They are perfectly built partners in crime.

i would take these 2 over J-No, no questions asked. We'll be drafting a DE, S and CB with our first 3-rounds this year. 

As much as I like J-no, our front-7 are still masking our weaknesses in the secondary and our offense is scoring basically at will, despite having possibly the worst defensive backfield (excluding the J-No Island,) in the league.

[micnificent28]

11 hours ago, MadHatter said:

I think the real issue is that you do not understand the job of a NT.  He is NOT a pass rusher.  He is a space eater.

And....he is performing at a very high level at that role.

He has always had the same role. He didn't just change positions but his impact just isn't the same. You can argue my knowledge of the game all you want but by his numbers are down. So if u think I am saying he  should be benched no. 

I am only looking at his development as a player. He hasn't been as dominate as he was and to say he is performing at a high level is debatable.

 

[MadHatter]

1 minute ago, micnificent28 said:

He has always had the same role. He didn't just change positions but his impact just isn't the same. You can argue my knowledge of the game all you want but by his numbers are down. So if u think I am saying he  should be benched no. 

I am only looking at his development as a player. He hasn't been as dominate as he was and to say he is performing at a high level is debatable.

 

NT is one of the most difficult positions to try and use numbers/stats to evaluate play.  Much of what he does is keep the LB's clean.  You won't see that in a stat sheet.   If you want to evaluate his play, one good way is to see how clean the lb's are moving to the play.  And in that case, they are always clean...thus, he is doing his job at a high level.

[j2sgam]

 I remember draft day hearing that Star was the top run stuffing DT in the draft & KK was the top pass rushing DT..... Am usually quite tipsy, and I don't watch the games to analyze but can't recall that many big runs up the middle. but do remember yellin his name in each game he played.....

 

just cause use we don't hear his name doesn't mean he ain't dominant. Panthers d-line dominates & he's part of that...... 

[Marguide]

21 hours ago, Bartin said:

It's such a misnomer that Star takes up double teams in the pass rush. He doesn't. When they talk about NT's eating up blocks they are referring to Star keeping the G and C from getting to the second level in the running game so Luke and TD don't have to shed blocks and are free to make plays.

Kawann's success really doesn't have that much to do with Star.

I agree with pretty much all of this. My point was directed more at the frequent claim on here that KK's success is because Star is pulling double teams, thus freeing up Kwann. And that's just not accurate.

[Mr. Scot]

Star's role is more so about helping Luke and the DEs than Short.

But that said, the characterization of him being the one who does the 'dirty work' while others net the stats is correct.

I don't really see him as having regressed this year, and I believe the team well understands the value of what he does.

[stirs]

Everyone seems to have the same "read it on a website" opinion about Star.

Watch film

Is he constantly double teamed?  Is he the famed "space eater"?

Should he get a big contract or should we draft another big guy?  Or offer him something moderate.