We need to Get NASTIER... Our Domination Needs to be ABSOLUTE.

[t96]

3 hours ago, JakeR6 said:

People only hate the Patriots because they win.

People hated Cam before he was even drafted. Imagine how much they're gonna hate us after he wins a SB.

We're gonna be the Sith of the NFL.

Not really. The Patriots were widely respected during and after their first 3 Super Bowl runs (though many were pissed at the Tuck Rule, rightfully so), up until Spygate. Then once everyone realized they were no good two timin' knife in the back cover it up cheaters everyone started hating them. And once they realized Brady was a whiny little bitch who gets every single call in the world. Loved seeing their arrogant asses going 18-0 then losing to the fuging Giants who were 10-6 in the reg. season and nobody thought was a contender. There are many franchises in pro sports that win that people don't hate. Don't see the Packers get hated, or the Steelers (outside of the Carolinas but that's a different story) or the Spurs. Bitchy (and cheating) teams like the Pats and Miami heat with LeBron get hated and rightfully so.

 

As for us and Cam, people who hate Cam will continue to do so. Those who never thought much about him (which is a lot of America because who really thinks much about the Panthers...) will probably like him and our current team if we keep it up. We're winning in such an old school fashion and doing it as a total team effort that I think a lot of people will try to get on the bandwagon if we win it all.

[t96]

7 minutes ago, Marguide said:

I don't know why people keep saying things like "Gettleman built the Giants D-line". Gettleman was not the GM. He was primarily the head of pro scouting.

Dave is great, but quit with the "he built the Giants SB teams" narrative. It isn't true.

I would've agreed with you about this but after seeing what he has done here it makes me think about how important DG was to their success. Of course he didn't solely build their championship teams, and we can never really know how much of their success should be attributed to him, but it's fair to think that he had a significant part in it considering how extremely well he's done as GM here. And official titles don't really mean much. You never know where the power is allocated in a team's front office.

[Marguide]

4 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

I would've agreed with you about this but after seeing what he has done here it makes me think about how important DG was to their success. Of course he didn't solely build their championship teams, and we can never really know how much of their success should be attributed to him, but it's fair to think that he had a significant part in it considering how extremely well he's done as GM here. And official titles don't really mean much. You never know where the power is allocated in a team's front office.

I love what DG has done here. He should have had his shot earlier, but didn't for whatever reason.

His body of work has been good enough that it needs no embellishment. He was a part of the Giants front office. Nothing more.

Imagine if Brandon Beane got hired this offseason as the new GM for the Lions. Would it be accurate to say he built the Panthers? Of course not, and DG's situation is the same.

 

[t96]

5 minutes ago, Marguide said:

I love what DG has done here. He should have had his shot earlier, but didn't for whatever reason.

His body of work has been good enough that it needs no embellishment. He was a part of the Giants front office. Nothing more.

My point is that we don't know this. We have no idea how large of a part he was in their front office. Just saying that it's fair to wonder how big his role really was there. We'll never know for sure.

Quote

Imagine if Brandon Beane got hired this offseason as the new GM for the Lions. Would it be accurate to say he built the Panthers? Of course not, and DG's situation is the same.

If the Lions were to hire Brandon Beane and go 28-12-1 while the Panthers regress then it would be fair to wonder if he had a larger part in our success than we believe. The situations aren't the same; they're apples and oranges.

 

I'm not saying DG was the reason for their success, I think I've made that clear. Just that it's fair to wonder if his importance to their team was greater than initially believed.

[Marguide]

4 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

My point is that we don't know this. We have no idea how large of a part he was in their front office. Just saying that it's fair to wonder how big his role really was there. We'll never know for sure.

If the Lions were to hire Brandon Beane and go 28-12-1 while the Panthers regress then it would be fair to wonder if he had a larger part in our success than we believe. The situations aren't the same; they're apples and oranges.

 

I'm not saying DG was the reason for their success, I think I've made that clear. Just that it's fair to wonder if his importance to their team was greater than initially believed.

Reportedly, one of his greatest contributions was scouting the Giants' upcoming opponents. He prepared extremely detailed reports on their tendencies, weaknesses, etc. This was a great resource for the coaching staff as they prepared for their upcoming game. I believe he is still doing this here.

Even DG will tell you his claim to fame is tape study. Turns out, he's a pretty damn good manager too.

[propagandamachine]

Want to know how influential Getts was ... just google the offseason additions in all those years Gaints went to the Super Bowl.. i mean the Moves are identical to a Tee... EVERY SINGLE MOVE... EVERY SINGLE THING he did. 

Simple template : Defensive ends. 

[O-Ther]

25 minutes ago, Marguide said:

Reportedly, one of his greatest contributions was scouting the Giants' upcoming opponents. He prepared extremely detailed reports on their tendencies, weaknesses, etc. This was a great resource for the coaching staff as they prepared for their upcoming game. I believe he is still doing this here.

Even DG will tell you his claim to fame is tape study. Turns out, he's a pretty damn good manager too.

Agree. That tape study is why he doesn't overpay players. He's seen so many of them being a scout for 12 years and being pro personnel director for another 12 years. He knows what players at every position should look like and be like, and makes appropriate offers for their current skill level. Probably why he loves his hog mollies. Knows they're the rarest to find after franchise QBs.

[t96]

4 minutes ago, O-Ther said:

hog mollies. Knows they're the rarest to find after franchise QBs.

I don't know, I think there are less true shutdown corners than there are elite pass rushers...

[Marguide]

22 minutes ago, propagandamachine said:

Want to know how influential Getts was ... just google the offseason additions in all those years Gaints went to the Super Bowl.. i mean the Moves are identical to a Tee... EVERY SINGLE MOVE... EVERY SINGLE THING he did. 

Simple template : Defensive ends. 

FA signings, yeah, that would have been DG. Draft picks, probably not so much.

[O-Ther]

8 minutes ago, thomas96 said:

I don't know, I think there are less true shutdown corners than there are elite pass rushers...

Corners can be compensated for with scheme. That'll be the debate about J_No24 this off-season. Will he be that good in someone else's man schemes or is he a product of our mostly zone schemes?

Big guys who can run fast are rarer than small guys who can run fast. That's why he gets that gleam in his eye saying hog mollies.

[t96]

13 minutes ago, O-Ther said:

Corners can be compensated for with scheme. That'll be the debate about J_No24 this off-season. Will he be that good in someone else's man schemes or is he a product of our mostly zone schemes?

Big guys who can run fast are rarer than small guys who can run fast. That's why he gets that gleam in his eye saying hog mollies.

That may be true for average corners who do well in a certain defense but Josh is a true shutdown corner who can play man or zone (and he's done both this year). There are less than 5 of those in the entire league. He'll be here for the rest of his career and he'll be compensated well. DG wouldn't have offered him anywhere near $7M/year after less than 8 starts playing at a high level (and not even quite the level he's played at this year) if he didn't think he was worth keeping. After this year's DPOY-worthy effort we know what we're getting with Josh and he's more than worth it, even if it'll take $10-12M per.

 

That bolded statement is completely ridiculous. Speed has nothing to do with being an elite football player. Hardy isn't very fast and is one of the best DEs in the league and DG obviously felt he was worth keeping before the off the field stuff. Josh is "slow" for a corner and is completely dominating any wideout who dares challenge him. Greatest WR of all time (well actually 2nd behind Smitty...) was slow as hell compared to most other receivers. Elite players are rare in general and you don't let them go when you get them (unless there's a certain incident that happens off the field).

[O-Ther]

1 hour ago, thomas96 said:

That may be true for average corners who do well in a certain defense but Josh is a true shutdown corner who can play man or zone (and he's done both this year). There are less than 5 of those in the entire league. He'll be here for the rest of his career and he'll be compensated well. DG wouldn't have offered him anywhere near $7M/year after less than 8 starts playing at a high level (and not even quite the level he's played at this year) if he didn't think he was worth keeping. After this year's DPOY-worthy effort we know what we're getting with Josh and he's more than worth it, even if it'll take $10-12M per.

 

That bolded statement is completely ridiculous. Speed has nothing to do with being an elite football player. Hardy isn't very fast and is one of the best DEs in the league and DG obviously felt he was worth keeping before the off the field stuff. Josh is "slow" for a corner and is completely dominating any wideout who dares challenge him. Greatest WR of all time (well actually 2nd behind Smitty...) was slow as hell compared to most other receivers. Elite players are rare in general and you don't let them go when you get them (unless there's a certain incident that happens off the field).

You're saying it's ridiculous that speed has nothing to do with being an elite football player? There aren't many elite players that are slow, so ok, yeah, cite Jerry Rice as an example and make it seem like he's the rule and not the exception. We'll all believe you.

[t96]

7 hours ago, O-Ther said:

You're saying it's ridiculous that speed has nothing to do with being an elite football player? There aren't many elite players that are slow, so ok, yeah, cite Jerry Rice as an example and make it seem like he's the rule and not the exception. We'll all believe you.

Speed is a factor but your statement indicated it was the only factor. It's not. It's not even close to being the most important. I'll take smarts over speed every day of the week. Millions of football players can run fast. Only a select few can play the game.