The tables have turned in the Cam vs Luck debate

[Montsta]

So no one is worried about Cam's performance since the bye?  2 TDs and 5 INTs won't win a super bowl, and in all honesty it won't even get us there.

He can be better and needs to be better.

Wins are fantastic but like we've said so many times with Luck they surrounded him with offensive talent and the Panthers surrounded Cam with a running game and a great defense.  Reminds me more of Russell Wilson and how they went through those winning seasons.  Ultimately though the QB has to make good throws.  Cam has a few throws that simply can't be done by many other guys in the league, however, he also makes some throws that puts the defense in bad situations.  Luck's defense would give up touchdowns in those situations, the Panthers hold defenses to field goals or stop them in their tracks.  That's the biggest difference right now.

Go look at every pick Cam has thrown out of those five. The only one I can recall that was clearly his fault was the sideline one to I think Malcolm Jenkins in the Iggles game. 

The amount of picks Cam gets off of tipped passes is insane. 

[Chaos]

Cam is performing fine. Like 2 out of 5 ints were actual bad throws instead of bounced off open receiver's palms into a db's hands. Or just wrestled out on the ground weirdly,

Plus since the bye he has faced much better defenses, who are more likely to take advantage of those mistakes.

[Davidson Deac II]

So no one is worried about Cam's performance since the bye?  2 TDs and 5 INTs won't win a super bowl, and in all honesty it won't even get us there.

He can be better and needs to be better.

Wins are fantastic but like we've said so many times with Luck they surrounded him with offensive talent and the Panthers surrounded Cam with a running game and a great defense.  Reminds me more of Russell Wilson and how they went through those winning seasons.  Ultimately though the QB has to make good throws.  Cam has a few throws that simply can't be done by many other guys in the league, however, he also makes some throws that puts the defense in bad situations.  Luck's defense would give up touchdowns in those situations, the Panthers hold defenses to field goals or stop them in their tracks.  That's the biggest difference right now.

I have no problem calling Cam out when he makes a bad throw but I have to ask if you actually watched the Eagles game?  The first throw hit Ginn in the stomach, he just didn't hold onto it and the Eagles defender was able to rip it away or got lucky and had it on top of him.  The third one hit Funchess in the hands.  IMO, Cam had one of his best games ever passing wise against the Eagles.  He was very sharp and ready to play. 

 

In the Seattle game, its true that Cam struggled early, but in crunch time he was great.  And being great in crunch time is how you win games in the NFL. 

 

Cam has four td's in the last two games.  The rushing td's count just as much as the passing ones do. 

 

[d-dave]

The whole Luck versus Cam story emerged because they are two completely different people who play the same position, taken at basically the same time.  

Everyone didn't like that Cam wasn't a prototypical QB. He always passed the eye test, but his running around was bad for a QB.  Luck played in the Jim Harbough NFL style offense at Stanford, and did great things.  Luck also is extremely humble and deflecting.  Cam is a superstar who attracts all of the cameras where he goes.  He's also way way way more handsome than Luck could ever be...

So Luck stays for his senior year, a story emerges that he did so to avoid the panthers, blah blah blah.  Then Luck has the early success while Cam struggles a bit.

Now we see our QB who has been through some really rough spots early in his career, who has had to overcome the doubters and negative perceptions to be recognized for his exceptional play this year.  Luck on the other hand has had to hold the standard of the future best QB in the NFL..

I think the real debate is: do you bring in every WR in the league or do you build an offensive line?  We're seeing that question play out this season for sure.

[TheRed]

So no one is worried about Cam's performance since the bye?  2 TDs and 5 INTs won't win a super bowl, and in all honesty it won't even get us there.

He can be better and needs to be better.

Wins are fantastic but like we've said so many times with Luck they surrounded him with offensive talent and the Panthers surrounded Cam with a running game and a great defense.  Reminds me more of Russell Wilson and how they went through those winning seasons.  Ultimately though the QB has to make good throws.  Cam has a few throws that simply can't be done by many other guys in the league, however, he also makes some throws that puts the defense in bad situations.  Luck's defense would give up touchdowns in those situations, the Panthers hold defenses to field goals or stop them in their tracks.  That's the biggest difference right now.

Only 2 touchdowns since the bye week?

You might want to check your numbers...

[motocross_cat]

Rushing td's count right?

[TheRed]

Rushing td's count right?

Only to those without an obvious agenda.

[Davidson Deac II]

Only to those without an obvious agenda.

And to those who didn't watch the game, and instead just read the brief box score that nfl or yahoo gives if you click on the score. 

[motocross_cat]

Only to those without an obvious agenda.

Steve young is considerd an all time great in the nfl, correct?  Doing so with rushing td's as a part of his greatness, correct?

Cam is going to destry his records and he is in year 5.  Looking for things wrong with cam right now is reaching michal jordan in space jam style right now.

[thefuzz]

Steve young is considerd an all time great in the nfl, correct?  Doing so with rushing td's as a part of his greatness, correct?

Cam is going to destry his records and he is in year 5.  Looking for things wrong with cam right now is reaching michal jordan in space jam style right now.

 

Part of Young's greatness was the fact that he could run, and still had one of the highest completion %'s in NFL history.

Now, it doesn't hurt that he played in a West Coast Offense, but none the less.  That isn't typical of the guys that can move well at that position.

Back to the OP.

It's all about wins, you win, you get praise and they overlook the numbers, you lose these last two games and everyone is pointing at the 2-5 stat like that dude did earlier in the thread.

Olsen, Stew, Tolbert, and Cam are our red zone threats since KB went down.....we are going to be running for more TD's than passing, as long as the D takes Olsen out of the redzone plays.

 

[rayzor]

in MY opinion, coming into the league luck had a higher floor than cam (and pretty much any QB in recent years), but cam had a much higher ceiling. i felt that luck could be plugged into just about any offense and do well, but that for cam to reach his potential was much more dependent on an offense being built around his particular and ever-growing skill set.

i think with both players, (and again, pretty much any QB) a solid OL is required for success to take place.

cam has that now. luck doesn't. if luck had a better OL, this would be a much more interesting contest because you could see what both players could do with protection, time, and space.

luck is better than what we are seeing now. OL is crap and team morale is low. we saw that with cam a couple years and we who support him always felt that same way....that cam was better than what we were seeing. we felt that cam's best years are ahead of him and i think the same is true for luck.

i think my opinion was/is valid and i also think we are seeing a glimpse of what cam is capable of and next year with his #1 wideout back we will see a lot more from him.

again, in MY opinion, luck has the potential to be as good as any QB in the league the past 10 years. you put him with an OL that can take care of him and you'll see him grow into that.

but cam has the potential to be the best and most productive QB to ever play the game. if we can keep building on what we're doing now and keep that OL together and solid, we'll see that happen.

[motocross_cat]

Well to be blunt here.  No cam on the panthers = we suck.  Period.

[TheRed]

 

And to those who didn't watch the game, and instead just read the brief box score that nfl or yahoo gives if you click on the score. 

Not sure about the poster I quoted, but I definitely watch the games.

I put the interceptions more on the learning curve with our current WR group right now. When you have a situation like we do with our WR's, sometimes interceptions are just going to happen unfortunately. Cam needs to tighten up a bit here and there, but our WR's are also going to have to bail him out sometimes if we want to make a deep playoff run.

 

[thefuzz]

Not sure about the poster I quoted, but I definitely watch the games.

I put the interceptions more on the learning curve with our current WR group right now. When you have a situation like we do with our WR's, sometimes interceptions are just going to happen unfortunately. Cam needs to tighten up a bit here and there, but our WR's are also going to have to bail him out sometimes if we want to make a deep playoff run.

 

I don't think that this actually has to happen, if we can get, and stay healthy on D.

All we need to do is score points.  I said it two years ago, I said it last year in the playoffs, and I will say it this year.  If we can just figure out how to score more than 24 or so points in the playoffs, we can be in every single game....Pats and Pack worry me though.