Mike and Mike on the Panthers

[PFFC]

"I think it speaks to Cam's development as a field general"

This times a hundred. It goes back to when he first came into the league. Remember they never let him wear one of those wrist cheat sheets with the plays on it?  Now all the plays are memorized and all are available at any given moment. I think all the other "young" quarterbacks still use them...including Wilson. 

[jasonluckydog]

When the qb runs you have 10 blockers!  

 

Amazing!!

[goodoleboy]

Not really.  Henning had a feed the stud mentality and would do the same thing over and over until you stopped it. Most time it was the same play out of the same set. It worked as long as your personnel were atheltically superior to theirs like was the case with Smitty in 2005.  

Another criticism that was discussed at the time was that Henning would for example always hike the ball on the first count to avoid false starts he said but it was easy for the defense to get a jump on the offense and time the hike.

That is surely not creative and imaginative.

Think back to our playoff run in 2003. Remember that wishbone looking set he pulled out in the playoffs for the first time. He also ran the wildcat with Deangelo a year before it became a fad credited to an assistant working under him in Miami, The Henning discussion back then mirrors the Shula talk now. There is no doubt in my mind had he had a QB with Newtons skill set we would see something similar to what Shula is doing in the run game. A lot of it is wildcat principles using the QB instead of a back without splitting him out wide.

[panthers55]

I understand all that dude. I just know where that guy was coming from. From a physicality standpoint he is correct. Beat teams into submission with a smashmouth run game, open up play action, and have a dominant defense.

ive read the articles I know what we are running is different than those teams in their intricacies but at face value they are the same. I'm not downplaying Shula or the offense. He has been terrific this year.

I realize what you are saying from a physical point of view and agree.  Still to lump us into the same category as the 49ers for example is a very poor comparison.  About the only thing that is similar is that we both have a quarterback who is mobile.

And it is the intricacies and doing the small things that make all the difference not the overall picture.  For example on Ginns end around, that was not a power play but a misdirection which requres finesse and speed not brute force.  Plus it was Olsen blocking downfield at the third level which gave him another 10-15 yards.  Again somethng most other teams dont do. 

[panthers55]

Think back to our playoff run in 2003. Remember that wishbone looking set he pulled out in the playoffs for the first time. He also ran the wildcat with Deangelo a year before it became a fad credited to an assistant working under him in Miami, The Henning discussion back then mirrors the Shula talk now. There is no doubt in my mind had he had a QB with Newtons skill set we would see something similar to what Shula is doing in the run game. A lot of it is wildcat principles using the QB instead of a back without splitting him out wide.

I wont speculate on what Henning might have done if he coached today versus in the past. He was certainly competent and better than some of the other OCs we have had.  I just never through of him being creative.  Persistent maybe but not creative.  Then again I am no offensive guru so what do I know.......

[cbarrier90]

The option offense out of the shotgun using a mobile QB has been a staple of the college game for at least a decade (best example I've ever seen is still the peak Rich Rod WVU years around 2007) yet somehow now that somebody finally figured out you can run it in the NFL all of a sudden it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Also, just because the offense has some gaping holes personnel wise, that doesn't mean it's completely immobile. Panthers have a perennial pro bowler at center, one of the best young interior line tandems in the league, Stew is running like Marshawn Lynch, and Cam is healthy. The team is simply playing to their strengths and trying to negate the flaws.

I understand the praise for the coaching but maybe the personnel on the offensive side of the ball is more effective than it's getting credit for.

[panthers55]

The option offense out of the shotgun using a mobile QB has been a staple of the college game for at least a decade (best example I've ever seen is still the peak Rich Rod WVU years around 2007) yet somehow now that somebody finally figured out you can run it in the NFL all of a sudden it's the greatest thing since sliced bread.

Also, just because the offense has some gaping holes personnel wise, that doesn't mean it's completely immobile. Panthers have a perennial pro bowler at center, one of the best young interior line tandems in the league, Stew is running like Marshawn Lynch, and Cam is healthy. The team is simply playing to their strengths and trying to negate the flaws.

I understand the praise for the coaching but maybe the personnel on the offensive side of the ball is more effective than it's getting credit for.

And who do you think makes the personnel effective and designs plays arounds the gap in your personnel?

Yeah that would be the coaches.

Anybody else get much out of Ginn for example, besides the Panthers?

[sml1950]

Going into the year, every outsiders concern was whether the OL could pass block, when it was always the team's concern of whether they could run block.  RR's latest PC was very revealing... We will run the ball when we want to, when we have to and when the other team knows we're going to.... 

When a team can run the ball, even in this " age of the pass", it can win on the road and in any weather condition.  Cam doesn't need to be Peyton Brady, he only needs to move the chains(with runs and passes),hit play action passes (which the WRs don't drop) and not make critical mistakes.  

[cbarrier90]

And who do you think makes the personnel effective and designs plays arounds the gap in your personnel?

Yeah that would be the coaches.

Anybody else get much out of Ginn for example, besides the Panthers?

And I've been saying it's not exactly rocket science to figure out this team needs to run the ball and play to their defense. It's not difficult to figure out screens, swing passes and end-arounds should go to speedsters Ted and Philly, not Bersin and Cotchery.

I'm glad Shula is evolving, but I'm still skeptical as to why it took this long and how much of it is really Cam being Cam.

[panthers55]

And I've been saying it's not exactly rocket science to figure out this team needs to run the ball and play to their defense. It's not difficult to figure out screens, swing passes and end-arounds should go to speedsters Ted and Philly, not Bersin and Cotchery.

I'm glad Shula is evolving, but I'm still skeptical as to why it took this long and how much of it is Cam being Cam.

You are another one of those posters that criticized Shula undeservedly and now have a hard time admitting they were wrong.  No worries there, you surely arent alone.

The issue isnt that we need to run the ball and play to their defense, you learn that as a coach in pop warner.  The trick is how do you do it effectively when you dont have the personnel to just impose your will on others and they know exactly what you are going to do.

You think Indy is not going to try to stop the run just like Seattle and the Eagles tried to do.  The issue is running when they expect you to pass and pass when they expect you to run.  If being an OC were so simple then why is it hard to find 32 competent ones out of all the possible candidates out there.

[cbarrier90]

You are another one of those posters that criticized Shula undeservedly and now have a hard time admitting they were wrong.  No worries there, you surely arent alone.

The issue isnt that we need to run the ball and play to their defense, you learn that as a coach in pop warner.  The trick is how do you do it effectively when you dont have the personnel to just impose your will on others and they know exactly what you are going to do.

You think Indy is not going to try to stop the run just like Seattle and the Eagles tried to do.  The issue is running when they expect you to pass and pass when they expect you to run.  If being an OC were so simple then why is it hard to find 32 competent ones out of all the possible candidates out there.

The premise of the thread was that the Panthers were doing something revolutionary on offense. I said they weren't and everybody flipped out.

I'm not sure how an observation that emulating two recent NFC powerhouses could be construed as me taking a shot at the venerable Shula, but I digress.

[Diehardpanther02]

I ve been saying this since cam came into the league and Shula became coordinator. I'm not pro Shula bc some of his decisions are confusing but his style fits us well.  With the way we run our offense it actually is the type of ball that will nullify what most of these offenses have done over the past ten years.  When you face these offenses like the Eagles, Patriots, and Green Bay the way to beat them is control the ball.  If you win in TOP against these teams you increase your opportunity of winning tremendously.   And the only way to do so is dominate in the run game and have a defense capable of shutting them down.  This is the type of scheme that can win in the new age NFL and it's pretty awesome to watch.  Old School beats new school any day of the week because these guys play with a grit and determination that a finesse team will never know anything about.  But on the flip-side if we don't execute the results won't be good for us.

[CoastalCat]

Thanks for the link.

I figured everyone has the ESPN Panthers page bookmarked.

[RumHam]

We are running the offense that Michael Vick needed ten years ago.