Ron Rivera or John Fox?

[motocross_cat]

The players willing to run into a wall for ron is what gives him the edge IMO.  Its awsome to watch the effort given fourth by the team over the past 5 years....i mean look at cam last year...sheesh.  Lynch said it during the seattle game, "this team wont quit" and he nailed it.  

Fox was a good coach here but rons leadership puts him ahead.

[NanuqoftheNorth]

John Fox is ancient history here. The coaching staff is different, the players are different, the executives are different, the locker room culture is different. Ron is our guy in charge now. Gantt is grasping at straws.

Exactly, way too many variables over the years to definitively say for sure.

At this point in time though, I would not trade Ron Rivera for John Fox.

[Daddy_Uncle]

This is the most pointless debate in history

[goodoleboy]

Right now Rivera is the better coach but he has grown into that status over the last 5 years. Year 1 Fox was better. Fortunately the Panthers have given Ron time to gain experience and grow into the role.

[Catweisers]

Hope every one turns off that station

[Ivan The Awesome]

Foxy's immediate success is his downfall. Going to the super bowl in his second season really made him complacent. No back to back playoffs, always a country club atmosphere. No sense of urgency. Complacent is the right word. I mean he had Peyton freaking Manning and he didn't do squat. Not a ring or anything worth noting. Albeit Rivera has no ring at the moment but I'd give Rivera more of a chance to get one that Fox. 

[Sean Payton's Vicodin]

Fox was good for a while, but he eventually wore out his welcome and the team began to fall apart. We have a gotten a much better core with Rivera than Fox. The only true franchise guys we drafted with Fox were Gross, Peppers, Beason, Kalil, TD and CJ. No I'm not counting 1st round running backs who had 1-2 great years in this. With Rivera, we got Cam, Luke, Norman, Star, KK, KB etc. That's 4 drafts (too soon to count 2015) compared to 9 with fox and we arguably got the better of the bunch.

[Omega Atrocity]

One thing Rivera did Sunday makes me choose him without really thinking too hard about it. He went for the td against the Seahawks and it ended in a victory. Fox would have certainly kicked a field goal and went to overtime.

[Jim Harbaugh]

You had your chance for greatness.

[Semaj]

I took all of the run up the middle, run up the middle, 3rd and long pass, punt is a good play,  that I could handle.  I wanted Fox gone 3 years before he actually was gone.  Rivera without a doubt. 

[CatMan72]

Rivera for me.

[nosuchthingasapanther]

the only reason why rivera is even in this discussion is because the panthers are on a hot streak.

the very same complaints people have for not picking fox are some of the very same complaints people wanted rivera fired half way thru last season when the panthers were in their 1-8-1 stretch.

huddle logic.

[Seltzer]

In terms of the best Panthers head coach, I don't know how anyone could argue against Fox being the best.  Fox took us to the playoffs 3 times, the NFC Championship 2x, and the SB.  As bad as it ended with Fox, and in retrospect the Panthers should have jettisoned him after 2009 (and the arguement could mad after 2008), the first 4 years of Fox were special.  Nothing can discount what Fox did from 2002- 2005 with the Panthers.

I will always appreciate the credibility that Fox brought to the Panthers after the complete embarrassment on and off the field in 2001.  Fox's ability to turn teams around, instill toughness, and devise a sound to elite level defense has been proven multiple times over the last 20 years.  Players play hard for Fox.  Even the 2010 team never quit on him in spite of having the worst overall talent in the league.  Fox tend to get the most out of his players when the chips are down.

Fox also performed better when he didn't have to manage the egos and expectations that come along with winning.  The 2003 Panthers were not the most talented team in franchise history IMO, and not even in the Fox years.  Again with 2005, there was  talent and obviously that was at Smitty's pinnacle, but Fox got the most of that team he could due to injuries.

That being said, Fox has obviously shown some deficiencies in being able to lead elite talent level teams to the ultimate goal.  A lot of this is due to his unyielding conservatism, especially on the offensive side of the ball.  2006 was definitely the beginning of the end for Fox.  Expectations were very high after what he accomplished in his first 4 years, and he couldn't handle it.  I remember watching that team in TC and totally buying in (and the national media did as well).  That D-Line of Peppers, Jenkins, Kemoeatu, & Rucker was as formidable and intimidating looking in person as any group you would ever see.  And Al Wallace, Kindal Moorehead, and Damione Lewis (who all could have started in their own rite on at least half the teams in the league) were the backups.  Anyway, I digress.

Same thing in Denver, though.  Got the most out of the The Golden Calf of Bristol led team in 2011, then couldn't handle the pressure in 2012- last year.  That 2012 team's failure was 100% on Fox too.  That was the most talented team in the league that year.

 

All that being said, I would take Rivera all day, every day over Fox at this point.  Rivera IMO is still ascending as a coach where Fox IMO has proven in his own words "he is who he is" at this point.  A great coach for restoring a bad team, an incapable coach of winning the ultimate prize.

Rivera needs playoff success to become the Panthers best HC in team history, and he has a good opportunity to do that this year.  Rivera has become easily a top 10 NFL HC, and arguably a top 5 HC.  I would rather roll with Rivera over anyone at this point right now.

[CRA]

In year 5 Rivera will have matched foxs division titles and playoff appearences. Depending on this years playoffs run Rivera could easily match Foxs credentials with 3 less seasons under his belt. 

Riveras credentials by his 8th year will have blown away Fox's. Give me a guy who can sustain a powerhouse franchise. Fox had hall of fame talent all over his squad but never won back to back nfcs titles, thats a damn travesty. 

yeah but you are basically giving equal standing to losing in the first round of the playoffs at home vs. going on the road and ending up in the Super Bowl.  I mean the 2003 vs 2013 seasons aren't close.   Fox gets a huge edge.

same goes for 2005 vs 2014.  A 7-8-1 teams with 1 playoff win vs a 11-5 team that goes to the NFCCG.   Another big edge to Fox.

I like Rivera more than Fox.  I think he will be better .  But Fox's early resume here was great.  Rivera's hasn't been.  If you are going off the two in a head to head future potential shouldn't carry that much weight. Nothing wrong with giving Fox a little credit for that stretch.