Read Option Issues

[KendrickPanther]

I'd like to see Cam pass more from under center. I think the team is hesitant to run from a traditional set because it looks too predictable. Cam is in his 5th season now. He can do the presnap reads, play action fakes, and use the hard count like all the other pro QBs. We saw some promising bootlegs today. I'd just like to see more pro offense in general. We don't have the play calling to get receivers open by scheme and we can't get open by talent either. We ought to be able to line up and play sound running football with play action. Especially when our defense is holding teams under 10 points.

[KendrickPanther]

Skuta is fast. Ran a 4.68 40 time, play speed is faster. In comparison, Cam ran a 4.58. Not much of a difference in speed, and Cam is trying to beat him around the edge. Skuta wasn't faster, just taking good angles. Have Cam running with Skuta in pursuit from behind, he's not catching Cam as long as Cam isn't having to juke.

My god, are we going to Cam is slower if he's not bigger AND faster than EVERY defensive player now?

Also, the running game wasn't that bad. Stew got thrown for a couple losses or no gains, but it wasn't often. He still averaged 3 yards a pop. As a team, we rushed for over 100 yards at 3 yards per rush. 4 yards is the minimum you ideally shoot for, as a team.

Take away the BS runs where we were trying to chew clock, I'd say we probably did average right at 4 yards per carry. That's efficient. Wasn't flashy and we weren't gashing the defense, save for a couple runs for decent gains. The run game did it's job.

Seriously, do I have to teach some of you the game of football?

Yeah I wouldn't judge our run game based off stats alone. I think it was the 3rd quarter we ran twice for 9 yards and on third and 1 Cam got stuffed on a sneek. They had like 1 camera in the stadium apparently and the challenge failed. But it felt like we could have established the run there if we get that first down.

I wonder if Kalil getting extra reps and Daryl Williams going out hurt affected some of the playcalling. I know Trai got knicked up too. It's conceivable they had certain plays meant for Remmers at center and Williams at RT and they just tore that page out when the subs never happened. 

It wasn't dominant but we were able to run it for the most part. At the end of the game they sold out on the run and we didn't punish them, that's risk management, not execution. 

[lightsout]

4.68 is not fast in the NFL and just 2 seasons ago Cam was out running DB's around the edge and everything.

And yes the running game was bad, in what universe is 3 ypc good? might as well go sign Trent Richardson. Take away the 22 yard run from the first drive and our running game looks even more pathetic.

 

Unless we are playing Bortles every week the run game is gonna have to do a hell of a lot better than this,

 

Cam after the game " our offense wasn't pretty. Panthers huddle after the game "our offense did a good job". Let me guess Cam is being a debbie downer, you guys are right.

Yeah I wouldn't judge our run game based off stats alone. I think it was the 3rd quarter we ran twice for 9 yards and on third and 1 Cam got stuffed on a sneek. They had like 1 camera in the stadium apparently and the challenge failed. But it felt like we could have established the run there if we get that first down.

I wonder if Kalil getting extra reps and Daryl Williams going out hurt affected some of the playcalling. I know Trai got knicked up too. It's conceivable they had certain plays meant for Remmers at center and Williams at RT and they just tore that page out when the subs never happened. 

It wasn't dominant but we were able to run it for the most part. At the end of the game they sold out on the run and we didn't punish them, that's risk management, not execution. 

First, on 4.68 not being fast in the NFL...it is about as fast as most linebackers. Most linebackers run between a 4.5 and 4.7, within that range. Luke ran a 4.58 and he is considered one of the faster linebackers (that's what "sideline to sideline" implies, after all). Again, the difference between 4.58 and 4.68 is like, a half step. 4.68 is slow for a receiver, not necessarily slow for a linebacker.

4 yards per carry. Let's play this out. 3 runs in a row at 4 yards each is 12 yards. Which is a first down.

3 yards puts you at 4th and 1. Sure, it's not efficient enough (again, 4 yards is the minimum you short for), but it's not horrible. And again, it's one game. In which our interior line got banged up. Stew is a 4.5 ypc runner when healthy, historically. 3 ypc when your center isn't quite 100%, your guard and tackle both get hurt during the game, and the opposing team is selling out on the run.

Take away the 22 yard run, sure. Drops the average. Take away a stupid triple option on 2nd and 6 (the play itself isn't stupid, but the situation in which it was called was) and replace it with a handoff of any sort, that helps the average. That works both ways.

I'm not saying we were world beaters today. We weren't. We definitely need improvement. But let's not act like we did badly. We moved the ball all game. I think Cam's comment on the offense playing "not pretty" was more on the drops and some of the blocking in general. It wasn't a crisply run offense by any stretch, but it was effective enough to move the ball.

We have to get better, and we will. It's game one. We will improve.

On the sneak that got "stopped"....yeah, no. Cam's waist was ON the first down marker. Even if he had the ball on his stomach, that's a first. It was a lazy job of review and a bad spot from the start. The way that sneak worked is exactly the way it worked 90% of the time last year. Just enough push for Cam to squeeze through and pick up an additional yard after the first, because he is huge.

 

[Panther53521]

Shula has not learned that when you are in the 4 minute offense (trying to kill the clock). Put Cam under center and run a normal Power runs with a lead fullback .... Oh fug thats right we dont need a damn fullback.

I think football baby could call plays better than Shula

[yasuhara2241]

Shula has not learned that when you are in the 4 minute offense (trying to kill the clock). Put Cam under center and run a normal Power runs with a lead fullback .... Oh fug thats right we dont need a damn fullback.

I think football baby could call plays better than Shula

I may be wrong but didn't we kill like 8 minutes on the clock on the drive that put the game away?

[Wundrbread33]

It does seem like our running plays are all slow developing. 

I'm more of an I-Form kinda guy myself. Just slam it off guard or tackle. Let your running back get some momentum.

[Panther53521]

Our offense dominated the TOP and moved down the field the entire game. Shula's terrible play calling ate up the entire 4th Q in one long drive and sealed the game. We should've had at least 34 points. Shula has nothing to do with the refs taking away TDs or Ginn dropping a TD. He called the plays that were scores. He can't do it for them.

We have no starting caliber WR on the roster and the OL is still average. Not sure what people are expecting. The offense is gonna play like this all season. We have a great defense. The offense just needs to move the ball, eat the clock, and score a few points and we'll win most games. 

Everyone wants a creative, high flying offense. That poo doesn't win football games. We tried it for 2 years with Cam and our record was 13-19. Everyone points to Indy/Luck and how they've surrounded him with weapons and look at his great numbers while we're wasting Cam's career.

Newsflash: Luck is on a team built to win fantasy football leagues, Cam is on a team built to win NFL championships. Can't help when the 2nd most important player on the team goes down. Luck is gonna throw 50 passes for 400 Yd & multiple TDs all season. He's gonna win his shitty division. But the Colts aren't going anywhere in the playoffs with their bottom 5 defense.

5 years from now Luck is gonna have the MVPs and all time records for his age/years played, but no playoff success. Cam is gonna be a champion. 

 

 

 

 

Running up the middle into a wall without a fullback and then Cam saving the day on 3rd and 8 to move the chains, to eat up the clock had everything to do with the piss poor situational play calling and personal.

All I want is an offense that is not so damn predictable and use the correct personal to get the job done.

The way we are "run heavy" Cam under center with play action would kill

[imminent rogaine]

Relying on the  read option drastically hurts our run game and pass game. The only thing it does is waste time while the front 7 closes in on Cam or Stew. If stew gets it, he has no momentum and the holes are now closed; if Cam wants to throw it, he has no time and no pocket. In no scenario is a good idea for the QB to get the ball and then stand there flat-footed with the rb while the defense closes in.

With mediocre WRs and the perception that we are run heavy, i'd rather run play-action and free up the WRs.

 

Also, I know I'm not the only one who thought about Lee Ward yesterday...

[Chimera]

Play action under center is ideal in most situations. However, I am not sure that I trust our offensive line enough for Cam to turn his back to the field, then turn around and reacquire a line of sight on the receivers.

So many of our WR routes are simply comebacks along the sidelines. A little more creativity would allow for quicker reads. 

[GoobyPls]

 

First, on 4.68 not being fast in the NFL...it is about as fast as most linebackers. Most linebackers run between a 4.5 and 4.7, within that range. Luke ran a 4.58 and he is considered one of the faster linebackers (that's what "sideline to sideline" implies, after all). Again, the difference between 4.58 and 4.68 is like, a half step. 4.68 is slow for a receiver, not necessarily slow for a linebacker.

4 yards per carry. Let's play this out. 3 runs in a row at 4 yards each is 12 yards. Which is a first down.

3 yards puts you at 4th and 1. Sure, it's not efficient enough (again, 4 yards is the minimum you short for), but it's not horrible. And again, it's one game. In which our interior line got banged up. Stew is a 4.5 ypc runner when healthy, historically. 3 ypc when your center isn't quite 100%, your guard and tackle both get hurt during the game, and the opposing team is selling out on the run.

Take away the 22 yard run, sure. Drops the average. Take away a stupid triple option on 2nd and 6 (the play itself isn't stupid, but the situation in which it was called was) and replace it with a handoff of any sort, that helps the average. That works both ways.

I'm not saying we were world beaters today. We weren't. We definitely need improvement. But let's not act like we did badly. We moved the ball all game. I think Cam's comment on the offense playing "not pretty" was more on the drops and some of the blocking in general. It wasn't a crisply run offense by any stretch, but it was effective enough to move the ball.

We have to get better, and we will. It's game one. We will improve.

On the sneak that got "stopped"....yeah, no. Cam's waist was ON the first down marker. Even if he had the ball on his stomach, that's a first. It was a lazy job of review and a bad spot from the start. The way that sneak worked is exactly the way it worked 90% of the time last year. Just enough push for Cam to squeeze through and pick up an additional yard after the first, because he is huge.

 

Fast is what Patrick Willis and Thomas Davis ran, in the 4.4 area. 4.68 is not fast and like I said Cam was out running safeties and corner backs in 2013.

3 ypc is bad anywhere you slice it, if a half back averages 3 ypc he wouldn't be starting for long. We need to average more than that.

And Cam knows he should not struggle against teams like this, he knows that the running game was bad. You can tell he was frustrated.. We can't go by squeezing by teams all season long,

 

The refs were terrible all around that's why I didn't bring them up

[Ace_Aladdin]

I liked a few of our read option plays. I just think we used it way too much this game. They knew it was coming after a few worked. With no pass to scare the D from stacking the box they just blew up our seemingly favorite thing to do. 

Why does it seem like we run a play that works till it doesn't and then a few more for good measure just in case they got amnesia. It's so frustrating and we need to keep Cam healthy. Stop shoving this play down our throats and try something different.

In order for RO to work your RB's have to gain good yardage in the middle and outside run where defender bites on it. They slowed down our regular runs and thats why it was a failure.