Philly Brown and Ted Ginn Jr are the worst starting receiver tandem in the league...

[DeuceBoogie]

So are we still calling them the Twin Towers/Skyline or has that ship sailed? 

[Nick_81]

I'm honestly perfectly happy with Ginn being our top receiver for a period. He's good and he earned it this offseason/preseason. I'm pretty upset about Brown being dubbed a starter despite absolutely not earning it. It wreaks of the same 'fait accompli' crap he pulled with Bell where he dubbed him the starter during the offseason no matter what, and there would be no actual competition for the job.

Brown has been our very worst WR thus far but was given the job anyway just because. Will it cost us games? Yes, probably, but Rivera has shown he is willing to lose games rather than change his mind.

Not according to his presser yesterday.  Rivera was pretty straight forward regarding Philly.  He acknowledged that they felt like it was a mental thing, and they feel like he's over that slump.  He also said that he has to produce.  Doesn't seem to me that his position is safe at all after watching that.  

We've been in a position the past few years, where we've had to start UDFA's, castoffs, and lower tier players.  It's not very fair to Rivera to say he "has shown he is willing to lose games rather than change his mind."  Pretty far fetched.  Not exactly his fault that Bell and Chandler were his best tackles at the time.  Nor is it his fault that Ginn and Philly are currently the best receivers, which they are if you look at their body of work over the whole preseason, and not just Brown's mental breakdown over the course of one week.

[rodeo]

Not according to his presser yesterday.  Rivera was pretty straight forward regarding Philly.  He acknowledged that they felt like it was a mental thing, and they feel like he's over that slump.  He also said that he has to produce.  Doesn't seem to me that his position is safe at all after watching that.  

We've been in a position the past few years, where we've had to start UDFA's, castoffs, and lower tier players.  It's not very fair to Rivera to say he "has shown he is willing to lose games rather than change his mind."  Pretty far fetched.  Not exactly his fault that Bell and Chandler were his best tackles at the time.  Nor is it his fault that Ginn and Philly are currently the best receivers, which they are if you look at their body of work over the whole preseason, and not just Brown's mental breakdown over the course of one week.

Maybe he has changed, or maybe that's all talk. He rode with Silatolu starting until week 10 last year even though he was obviously the worst guard on our roster.

[Nick_81]

Maybe he has changed, or maybe that's all talk. He rode with Silatolu starting until week 10 last year even though he was obviously the worst guard on our roster.

Norwell was a pleasant surprise, but it was said that he was struggling early.  It's taken Williams most of the preseason to get up to speed.  He was pretty horrendous at the beginning, especially his footwork.  The same can be said for a lot of our younger guys.  It's a very tough transition to the NFL.  Most just aren't ready at the start of the season, and it's really a crap shoot until they're in an actual game.  I think there's a lot more to it than, "oh Rivera is just set in his ways, and plays who he wants, regardless of talent."  

[Mr. Scot]

No coach in the league is "willing to lose".

Some may be too stubborn to admit they're wrong, but nobody - Rivera included - would ever deliberately tank a game. If they stick with a certain player, it's because they believe it's the best choice.

They may be wrong, but they don't believe they are, and they sure as hell don't know they are.

The whole notion is silly.

[GRWatcher]

I know I'm one of those that believe it takes a team to win a football game. I never pin hope on one or two players. Everyone has to do his part. And the plus side of a team is that the whole together is better than each of its parts. 

I also know that the depth chart listing is not written in stone. It is, and has to be, fluid. There's not a 5th preseason game for us fans to see Kevin Norwood's progress which is too bad because he looked darn good after just 2 days. But the coaches are noting his progress and that's what counts. Bet they're also watching Funchess closely too as well as every other WR. Therefore, I'm not worried before the 1st regular season game. I can't change anything, I can't improve anything, I can't make KB's knee heal itself overnight. I can let the stress kill me, but I'm not willing to do that either.  

So I have faith in my team, the Panthers, and the coaches & players & FO & stadium staff, down to the lady that sews the names on the jerseys & alters them for each player. I also don't give up or give in. Fans have it easy.

[rodeo]

Norwell was a pleasant surprise, but it was said that he was struggling early.  It's taken Williams most of the preseason to get up to speed.  He was pretty horrendous at the beginning, especially his footwork.  The same can be said for a lot of our younger guys.  It's a very tough transition to the NFL.  Most just aren't ready at the start of the season, and it's really a crap shoot until they're in an actual game.  I think there's a lot more to it than, "oh Rivera is just set in his ways, and plays who he wants, regardless of talent."  

No coach in the league is "willing to lose".

Some may be too stubborn to admit they're wrong, but nobody - Rivera included - would ever deliberately tank a game. If they stick with a certain player, it's because they believe it's the best choice.

They may be wrong, but they don't believe they are, and they sure as hell don't know they are.

The whole notion is silly.

Even Velasco was a very very clear upgrade over Silatolu when he came in the game. Every gameday thread for months was constantly ranting about Silatolu because it was clear as day to everyone that he was costing us football games. So either Rivera was willfully keeping him in because he stubbornly willing to lose, or he was just utterly stupid and had no idea what the problem was. I think the first option is somehow giving him more credit than the second.

[GRWatcher]

 

Even Velasco was a very very clear upgrade over Silatolu when he came in the game. Every gameday thread for months was constantly ranting about Silatolu because it was clear as day to everyone that he was costing us football games. So either Rivera was willfully keeping him in because he stubbornly willing to lose, or he was just utterly stupid and had no idea what the problem was. I think the first option is somehow giving him more credit than the second.

And maybe, just maybe, Matsko was telling him that the young fellas weren't ready to start.  That's the 3rd & smartest & most likely option. When you think you see a problem, think through & present ALL the possible options even if they don't fit your agenda. We'll all be better for it. :)

 

[Nick_81]

 

Even Velasco was a very very clear upgrade over Silatolu when he came in the game. Every gameday thread for months was constantly ranting about Silatolu because it was clear as day to everyone that he was costing us football games. So either Rivera was willfully keeping him in because he stubbornly willing to lose, or he was just utterly stupid and had no idea what the problem was. I think the first option is somehow giving him more credit than the second.

Velasco was having to rotate with Turner at right guard, because he was a rookie and still learning, and also battling injury.  On top of that Velasco was a hot mess on the left side, not much better than Silatolu, if any.  Norwell was an unknown, an UDFA.  Maybe he waited a little too long... but only a little IMO.  Put him in before he's ready, and it could have been disastrous for his development.  I think he's been around football long enough to not be a complete retard.

[Nick_81]

And maybe, just maybe, Matsko was telling him that the young fellas weren't ready to start.  That's the 3rd & smartest & most likely option. When you think you see a problem, think through & present ALL the possible options even if they don't fit your agenda. We'll all be better for it. :)

 

Very good point as well.

[Mr. Scot]

Even Velasco was a very very clear upgrade over Silatolu when he came in the game. Every gameday thread for months was constantly ranting about Silatolu because it was clear as day to everyone that he was costing us football games. So either Rivera was willfully keeping him in because he stubbornly willing to lose, or he was just utterly stupid and had no idea what the problem was. I think the first option is somehow giving him more credit than the second.

In your mind, not his.

He's not an idiot, and only an idiot would willfully lose games.

[beastson]

It's not like Cam won't be targeting Olsen Cotchery Dickson Swole Bones Norwood Funchess

Ginn and Brown can get open, just catch the ball

[rodeo]

And maybe, just maybe, Matsko was telling him that the young fellas weren't ready to start.  That's the 3rd & smartest & most likely option. When you think you see a problem, think through & present ALL the possible options even if they don't fit your agenda. We'll all be better for it. :)

 

Then Matsko lost us the games and Rivera is an idiot for believing him.

[GRWatcher]

Then Matsko lost us the games and Rivera is an idiot for believing him.

Sorry, rodeo. I just have to say that I hope you are not serious about this. Really, really, really hope so.