Sooooo, Space Jam 2

[TheRed]

 

 

 

 

 

 

 

Those numbers aren't any less cherry picked than the ones posted by the people who don't like LeBron.

Look, we know the Cavs had injuries. Regardless, the Warriors were the better team. Give them credit.

Are you going to attempt to make these same excuses for the finals against the Spurs the year before?

They can improve, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend like the Cavs have a squad of bums around James, especially as weak as the East has been.

[pantherphan96]

Those numbers aren't any less cherry picked than the ones posted by the people who don't like LeBron.

Look, we know the Cavs had injuries. Regardless, the Warriors were the better team. Give them credit.

Are you going to attempt to make these same excuses for the finals against the Spurs the year before?

They can improve, but I'm not going to sit here and pretend like the Cavs have a squad of bums around James, especially as weak as the East has been.

I'm not making excuses at all. I'm just saying that people poo on Lebron for losing finals when its two times (07 and this year) been him vs the best team in the west. The Warriors deserved the win as much as the Spurs in 07, the Spurs in 13, and the Mavs in 11.

Personally, I think the Cavs win that series if Love and Irving stay healthy. Doesn't matter though, because it didn't happen. The Cavs will be in the top 3 in the EC again this year, and will probably make the Finals.

[Implied Volatility]

Give Lebron a healthy Dwyane Wade and he wins the finals against the Mavs and Spurs (not the 2007 one though). 

Come on now. D-Wade was healthy in 2011 against the Mavs. He averaged 27, 7 & 5 on 55% shooting in that Finals series.

Meanwhile LeBron was a no show when his team needed him the most. That series ended any discussion between he and MJ.

[pantherphan96]

Come on now. D-Wade was healthy in 2011 against the Mavs. He averaged 27, 7 & 5 on 55% shooting in that Finals series.

Meanwhile LeBron was a no show when his team needed him the most. That series ended any discussion between he and MJ.

LBJ avg 18, 7, and 7 on 48% shooting. Bosh contributed well too. Dirk (26 & 10) and Terry (18ppg) had an insane series 

[Implied Volatility]

LBJ avg 18, 7, and 7 on 48% shooting. Bosh contributed well too. Dirk (26 & 10) and Terry (18ppg) had an insane series 

LeBron was terrible. There is no way to sugarcoat it. Go back and look at his nearly non existent 4th quarter stats in that series. He played like a poor man's Scottie Pippen. If LeBron brought his B-game the Heat would have won that series with the way D-Wade was playing.

[pantherphan96]

LeBron was terrible. There is no way to sugarcoat it. Go back and look at his nearly non existent 4th quarter stats in that series. He played like a poor man's Scottie Pippen. If LeBron brought his B-game the Heat would have won that series with the way D-Wade was playing.

Even Mark Cuban said that Lebron did what he was supposed to do in the 4th, find the open man. His teammates didn't make the shots. He could have played better, thats for sure, but its ridiculous to think that he is the reason they lost.

[Implied Volatility]

Even Mark Cuban said that Lebron did what he was supposed to do in the 4th, find the open man. His teammates didn't make the shots. He could have played better, thats for sure, but its ridiculous to think that he is the reason they lost.

Are kidding me? Did you even watch that series? LeBron was scared to even take the ball to the rack against the Mavs in the 4th quarter. He didn't do a good job of scoring. He didn't do a good job of making plays for he teammates. He didn't do ANYTHING when his team needed him to be aggressive. Even some of the most devote LeBron fans can admit he dropped the ball in that series. I'm not sure what your excuse is.

[pantherphan96]

Are kidding me? Did you even watch that series? LeBron was scared to even take the ball to the rack against the Mavs in the 4th quarter. He didn't do a good job of scoring. He didn't do a good job of making plays for he teammates. He didn't do ANYTHING when his team needed him to be aggressive. Even some of the most devote LeBron fans can admit he dropped the ball in that series. I'm not sure what your excuse is.

ok skip bayless. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9w_XUQyJJQ

 

[pantherphan96]

Jordan/Wade/Bosh would've swept Dallas and beat San Antonio in 5.

LeBron ran away from his failures in Cleveland and piggy back rode Wade to a pair of titles. Then when Wade broke down he went running back to Cleveland for younger stars to help carry him.

You can say that. I can say that Lebron / Pippen / Rodman / Kerr would have swept all 6 NBA Finals Jordan was in. You can't prove either of them.

I'm not a huge Lebron fan, it just frustrates me that the best player of this generation is hated so much for no reason (besides the regurgitated hot takes courtesy of skip bayless and first take) while Jordan is venerated as some god who won all his titles completely on his own.

[TheRed]

I'm not a huge Lebron fan, it just frustrates me that the best player of this generation is hated so much for no reason (besides the regurgitated hot takes courtesy of skip bayless and first take) while Jordan is venerated as some god who won all his titles completely on his own.

LeBron is responsible himself for a large amount of the disdain he receives. The whole decision fiasco with Miami in leaving Cleveland to go team up with Wade and Bosh instead of building a winner with the Cavs originally is where that stems from, and only James himself is to blame for that. Let's just be completely clear about that.

James made the correct choice in going back to Cleveland to right the wrongs. I commend him for that.

But you really don't need to drag Jordan into this to paint LeBron in a better light. It wasn't Jordan who ditched the Bulls when things got tough.

[Implied Volatility]

ok skip bayless. 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H9w_XUQyJJQ

 

Strong argument. Cuban knows his team won because LeBron was a no show. Making the right play, finding the open player etc is fine when you're a role player or at the very least aggressive in doing so. LeBron isn't a role player and wasn't aggressive at all in that series in 4th quarters. He would often take a couple of dribbles then kick the ball out to his teammates who weren't even open with the shot clock running down.

[pantherphan96]

LeBron is responsible himself for a large amount of the disdain he receives. The whole decision fiasco with Miami in leaving Cleveland to go team up with Wade and Bosh instead of building a winner with the Cavs originally is where that stems from, and only James himself is to blame for that. Let's just be completely clear about that.

James made the correct choice in going back to Cleveland to right the wrongs. I commend him for that.

But you really don't need to drag Jordan into this to paint LeBron in a better light. It wasn't Jordan who ditched the Bulls when things got tough.

The Decision was years ago. Anyone who is still upset about it is ridiculous. I don't blame him leaving Cleveland either, as they failed to surround him with any semblance of talent. Jordan had Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant developing as they were losing to the Pistons. Lebron had zydrunas ilgauskas.

[pantherphan96]

Strong argument. Cuban knows his team won because LeBron was a no show. Making the right play, finding the open player etc is fine when you're a role player or at the very least aggressive in doing so. LeBron isn't a role player and wasn't aggressive at all in that series in 4th quarters. He would often take a couple of dribbles then kick the ball out to his teammates who weren't even open with the shot clock running down.

The star player attracts coverage and finds an open teammate. That is the right play. That is how the Warriors played and how the Spurs play. Doesn't mean that Steph Curry or Duncan or Parker are role players or were more aggressive in doing so than Lebron, they just had teammates make open shots or make the next pass for a shot. 

 

The starting PG was Mike Bibby, who shot 35%. His backup, Chalmers, shot 42% and only had 3.5 apg with 12 ppg. Joel Anthony was a black hole on offense and defense, shooting 29% (!!!) and barely getting any rebounds or blocks. Lebron, Wade, and Bosh combined for almost all of the Heat's offense every night. 

[TheRed]

The Decision was years ago. Anyone who is still upset about it is ridiculous. I don't blame him leaving Cleveland either, as they failed to surround him with any semblance of talent. Jordan had Scottie Pippen and Horace Grant developing as they were losing to the Pistons. Lebron had zydrunas ilgauskas.

I'm not implying that people are still upset about that, I was merely pointing out, that in regards to much of the "hate" he has received over the years, that was a substantial factor.

Not even going to bother comparing rosters of previous generations. Jordan always gets dragged into this, let LeBron's legacy stand on it's own.