If this offseason had played out like this...

[cbarrier90]

 

1st you don't  know what I saw so keep that Bs opinion to yourself..  

 

There are 3936 minutes in a regular season. Vonleh played 259. How could you possibly judge whether a guy is any good when he's played a grand total of 6.5% of the season?

He may turn out to be a great player, but he looked like a guy that clearly could have used at least one or two more years in school. His passiveness that FuFu mentioned is why he fell so far in the draft in the first place.

This idea that just because he's young and has a high ceiling he's going to be good is flawed.

[FuFuLamePoo]

Summer League is so irrelevant, remember when Josh Selby looked like fuging MJ in summer league?  Vonleh may end up being an all star, or he may be out of the league in 5 years.  We have no idea.  There was one game this year where he showed something and that was against the Pistons.  Meanwhile Cody had some really damn good outings against some really good teams.  Also Vonleh never did much his lone season in Bloomington.  I admit, Vonleh has a lot of interesting intangibles.  Athletic, great length, versatile and can shoot the ball.  But we still have no idea what he's gonna end up being.  I'm not saying I trust our front office and management when it comes to handling their assets and judging talent, but they watched Vonleh play every single day last year.  I'm a glass half full guy so for now I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.  They traded an uproven guy for a guy who's proven to be a really good player that's still only 26.

[WOW!!]

 There aCody h36 minutes in a reshooting  season. Vonleh played 259. How could you possibly judge whether a guy is any good when he's played a grand total of 6.5% of the season?

He may turn out to be a great player, but he looked like a guy that clearly could have used at least one or two more years in school. His passiveness that FuFu mentioned is why he fell so far in the draft in the first place.

This idea that just because he's young and has a high ceiling he's going to be good is flawed.

1 game he showed 3 pt range  shooting a post up game and rim protection... 

Things Cody hasn't shown in 80 games... 

Summer Try ague is so irrelevant, remember when Josh Selby looked like fuging MJ in summer league?  Vonleh may end up being an all star, or he may be out of the league in 5 years.  We have no idea.  There was one game this year where he showed something and that was against the Pistons.  Meanwhile Cody had some really damn good outings against some really good teams.  Also Vonleh never did much his lone season in Bloomington.  I admit, Vonleh has a lot of interesting intangibles.  Athletic, great length, versatile and can shoot the ball.  But we still have no idea what he's gonna end up being.  I'm not saying I trust our front office and management when it comes to handling their assets and judging talent, but they watched Vonleh play every single day last year.  I'm a glass half full guy so for now I'm giving them the benefit of the doubt.  They traded an uproven guy for a guy who's proven to be a really good player that's still only 26.

Try this again... 

 

 

What was Vonleh stats in IU compare to Frank and Cody's freshman years... 

[FuFuLamePoo]

 

Try this again... 

 

What was Vonleh stats in IU compare to Frank and Cody's freshman years... 

This is such a ridiculous argument, why am I bothering?  Well when Vonleh was a freshman at Indiana he went for like 12/9.  When Cody was a freshman he went like 15/7.  So I'm not sure what kind of argument you're trying to make there.  When Vonleh was at Indiana they had no one.  He was probably their best player they didn't even make the tournament.  If Cody was there he was playing with guys like Victor Oladipo.  If Cody had stayed one more year and was on that team with Vonleh he would have average 20+ PPG.  Also, if anything Frank's freshman numbers are good news in my eyes. Frank grew over a foot while he was in high school.  He even kept growing a while while he was at Wisconsin.  It took him awhile to adjust to his new frame.  I would be concerned if Frank was a quality player all four years tbh.  But he wasn't.  He made MASSIVE improvements every season which makes me think he's no where close to his ceiling.  There is nothing to believe he won't keep getting better.  Kaminsky has shown no signs he's anywhere close to peaking, hell he made big improvements throughout his entire last season at Wisconsin. 

[Omega Atrocity]

Batum won't get a max deal. He is a veteran, his max would be the same as LeBron/KD. He will get PAID but not the max. And why wouldn't we pay him if he's good, we literally only have Kemba and the rookie scale players after this season. Paying him and MKG would still leave us with a ton of space.

[Omega Atrocity]

1 game he showed 3 pt range  shooting a post up game and rim protection... 

Things Cody hasn't shown in 80 games... 

Try this again... 

 

 

What was Vonleh stats in IU compare to Frank and Cody's freshman years... 

What were Thomas Robinson's stats in his year at Kansas?

[WOW!!]

The  is such a ridiculous argument, why am I bothering?  Well when Vonleh was a freshman at Indiana he went for like 12/9.  When Cody was a freshman he went like 15/7.  So I'm not sure what kind of argument you're trying to make there.  When Vonleh was at Indiana they had no one.  He was probably their best player they didn't even make the tournament.  If Cody was there he was playing with guys like Victor Oladipo.  If Cody had stayed one more year and was on that team with Vonleh he would have average 20+ PPG.  Also, if anything Frank's freshman numbers are good news in my eyes. Frank grew over a foot while he was in high school.  He even kept growing a while while he was at Wisconsin.  It took him awhile to adjust to his new frame.  I would be concerned if Frank was a quality player all four years tbh.  But he wasn't.  He made MASSIVE improvements every season which makes me think he's no where close to his ceiling.  There is nothing to believe he won't keep getting better.  Kaminsky has shown no signs he's anywhere close to peaking, hell he made big improvements throughout his entire last season at Wisconsin. 

The point was that Vonleh was equal or better player than Frank and Cody when they were his age..  So people shouldn't use him not getting playing time here as a reason to down grade him.. Frank and Cody spent their second year out of high school  in college..  Vonleh was playing in the NBA.. So to ccompare them is a little unfair... 

Frank does have some growth  left but Turner and Vonleh have more...  

[cbarrier90]

Vonleh had 13/7 in hid first SL game and just dropped 20/8 today and was by far the best player (and youngest) on the court. Very aggressive defensively and on the boards and attacked on offense. Hit a few 3s, showed nice post moves, and had several nasty dunks. I have a feeling this is the move that's gonna get Cho canned in 2-3 years.

This entire offseason reeked of desperation, which is so sad considering at best this team may be a lower seed in the East.

I think Cho, if he had full autonomy, would run a team similar to the way Hinkie is running the Sixers (although probably not as "tank happy" as Hinkie is.) Draft the player with the highest ceiling, accumulate youth and assets, don't overspend. I've seen it said that he wanted to do this with the Blazers which is why he only lasted one season, because Paul Allen wanted a competitive team.

I think MJ was willing to tank the Anthony Davis because, obviously, Anthony Davis, but when we missed out and Dunlap failed his patience ran out. The Al signing worked out in the short term, but it was still a puzzling move for a team with a high lottery bound roster, young top ten picks Kemba, MKG, and Biz and one that you have to wonder was even Cho's idea. The same for not offering a QO to Biz and giving up on Vonleh. 

Ultimately Cho's undoing will come back to missing on multiple drafts, but, given this offseason, I have to wonder just who is calling the shots, even if publicly Cho is the one front and center. Ultimately as a GM your job is to carry out what the owner wants.

That said, as has been mentioned on here countless times, we are on a short timetable given the ASG and Curry free agency sweepstakes. If being competitive gets us closer to the goal of getting him then it will be worth it. Problem is you're hoping the star of a juggernaut will leave to ascend a historically mediocre franchise into prominence out of sheer homesickness, and if that falls through, you're basically the Joe Johnson Hawks at best.

[WOW!!]

What were Thomas Robinson's stats in his year at Kansas?

 

WHat years and who cares??

[Omega Atrocity]

 

WHat years and who cares??

Because busts can have great college stats too. Using college stats at all is largely meaningless.

[WOW!!]

It's  literally useless to use Thomas Robinson to make a point...  He was a undersized PF tweener with no true position in the NBA..  Most people could  see he would struggle..  All 3 guys in this conversation are and were better prospects coming out than Robinson..  So this point you were trying to make is iinvalid to the conversation and to the point I was making..  

 

It's  called context...  I  wasn't making a point  about college production in that way in the 1st place... 

[Woodie]

This entire offseason reeked of desperation, which is so sad considering at best this team may be a lower seed in the East.

I think Cho, if he had full autonomy, would run a team similar to the way Hinkie is running the Sixers (although probably not as "tank happy" as Hinkie is.) Draft the player with the highest ceiling, accumulate youth and assets, don't overspend. I've seen it said that he wanted to do this with the Blazers which is why he only lasted one season, because Paul Allen wanted a competitive team.

I think MJ was willing to tank the Anthony Davis because, obviously, Anthony Davis, but when we missed out and Dunlap failed his patience ran out. The Al signing worked out in the short term, but it was still a puzzling move for a team with a high lottery bound roster, young top ten picks Kemba, MKG, and Biz and one that you have to wonder was even Cho's idea. The same for not offering a QO to Biz and giving up on Vonleh. 

Ultimately Cho's undoing will come back to missing on multiple drafts, but, given this offseason, I have to wonder just who is calling the shots, even if publicly Cho is the one front and center. Ultimately as a GM your job is to carry out what the owner wants.

That said, as has been mentioned on here countless times, we are on a short timetable given the ASG and Curry free agency sweepstakes. If being competitive gets us closer to the goal of getting him then it will be worth it. Problem is you're hoping the star of a juggernaut will leave to ascend a historically mediocre franchise into prominence out of sheer homesickness, and if that falls through, you're basically the Joe Johnson Hawks at best.

Actually, I think it was last year that reeked of desperation.  They thought signing Hayward would fix the offense (a desperation move in itself, IMO), but when that didn't work out, they panicked and brought in Lance.  However, I think they recognized their mistakes last year and went into this offseason with a very distinct plan, and have followed that plan to a T. 

They wanted shooters, not just scorers, but guys that can legitimately shoot with range.  They also wanted to give themselves as much size and flexibility as possible.  So they traded an unknown asset and role player for a known player that can shoot, play defense, and has the versatility to play either wing position.  Then they went and brought in another shooter in Lamb, and took a shooting big man in Frank.  Not to mention trading last year's mistake for another big shooter. 

I'm sure with all the moves they knew they would have to sacrifice some defense, but likely felt the offensive improvements would overcome any losses on defense.  And while we lost some interior defense, we still have some solid defensive players on the team.  So, the tradeoff shouldn't decimate Cliffs desire for a solid defensive team...just makes us more balanced. 

 

 

 

Overall, the moves the team made this year should make us a very well rounded team that will be a dangerous matchup for anyone.  We now have the ability to go big or small, and have players that can compete if we get into a shootout.  The only things we are lacking that may keep us from being a legitimate title contender is a solid interior defensive force that can get us 10-12 rebounds a night and star who can take over the game and carry the team when needed.  

As for next year and beyond, we should have the ability to keep everyone we want as long as they perform as expected, and still be able to bring in some interior help.  Other than whether or not our new players play up to expectations, the only question is if they will want to stay here.  Batum, for example, has the chance to be really good for us for a long time, and, IMO, is a perfect partner for MKG on the wings.  But, he will be a FA next year, so hopefully he'll be happy here and want to stick around.  If not, then we'll be headed back to the drawing board.  But I have a feeling if he breaks out like I think he will, he will not be in a hurry to go anywhere.