Why didn't Clifford play Vonleh??

[WOW!!]

Love Cliff but poo ... Not playing Vonleh down the stretch or when Cody was out was a major mistake...

 

I would have love to see him get some time on the floor with AL..

 

[cbarrier90]

The best thing that could have ever happened to our young players was for them never to see the floor, lest the myth of their ability to produce ever be questioned (lookin at you, Biz.)

The reality is he was viewed as a luxury pick as a project that has all the tools but isn't ready to play at 18 years old. Cho decided that, with a veteran roster pretty much in tow for next season, he could afford to get a Top 5 projected guy who fell to 9. Unfortunately we saw last year why he fell, and truth be told he should have stayed another year in school but that's neither here nor there.

The idea of him being a luxury at that point last draft is important, because you have to recall at the time McBob had just opted out of his contract and the feeling was, because he was viewed as an essential piece by pretty much everyone in the organization and he wanted to be here, that he would be brought back. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Mcbob left for Miami and, knowing Vonleh wasn't ready, Cho panicked and signed Marvin Williams, who in fairness ended up carving out a role on the team last year, albeit not worth what we paid for him.

Rather than throw Vonleh to the wolves and destroy the kid's confidence in what ended up being a lost season, we let him watch and learn and develop. It goes to show how quickly things can change in the league, because he's gone from being simply a luxury, to a guy we desperately need to actually reach that potential.

Tl;dr:  Cliff didn't play Vonleh because he wouldn't have helped last season and it probably would have destroyed his confidence.

To answer your 2nd thread, I take Vonleh over Cody only because I think we've seen the best Cody will be, while Noah is still largely an unknown.

[WOW!!]

The best thing that could have ever happened to our young players was for them never to see the floor, lest the myth of their ability to produce ever be questioned (lookin at you, Biz.)

The reality is he was viewed as a luxury pick as a project that has all the tools but isn't ready to play at 18 years old. Cho decided that, with a veteran roster pretty much in tow for next season, he could afford to get a Top 5 projected guy who fell to 9. Unfortunately we saw last year why he fell, and truth be told he should have stayed another year in school but that's neither here nor there.

The idea of him being a luxury at that point last draft is important, because you have to recall at the time McBob had just opted out of his contract and the feeling was, because he was viewed as an essential piece by pretty much everyone in the organization and he wanted to be here, that he would be brought back. Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Mcbob left for Miami and, knowing Vonleh wasn't ready, Cho panicked and signed Marvin Williams, who in fairness ended up carving out a role on the team last year, albeit not worth what we paid for him.

Rather than throw Vonleh to the wolves and destroy the kid's confidence in what ended up being a lost season, we let him watch and learn and develop. It goes to show how quickly things can change in the league, because he's gone from being simply a luxury, to a guy we desperately need to actually reach that potential.

Tl;dr:  Cliff didn't play Vonleh because he wouldn't have helped last season and it probably would have destroyed his confidence.

To answer your 2nd thread, I take Vonleh over Cody only because I think we've seen the best Cody will be, while Noah is still largely an unknown.

Mcbob was gone way before the draft... And I'm talking at the end of the year when Cody was hurt and it was clear that Marvin isn't a PF and Maxsell wasn't in future plans... The kid should have played and Cliff had a BS John Fox complex on that poo... It wouldn't have killed Vonleh to get major minutes at the end of the season.. You get better by being on the court not on the bench...

[cbarrier90]

 

Mcbob was gone way before the draft... And I'm talking at the end of the year when Cody was hurt and it was clear that Marvin isn't a PF and Maxsell wasn't in future plans... The kid should have played and Cliff had a BS John Fox complex on that poo... It wouldn't have killed Vonleh to get major minutes at the end of the season.. You get better by being on the court not on the bench...

Maybe Vonleh just isn't that good, which goes back to the first paragraph in my post. We don't exactly have a good track record with drafting, and for all the flack Cliff gets regarding rotations, he played PJ OVER Henderson at the start of the season, PJ just lacked defense and made some bone headed decisions and was benched again.

The problem most Hornets fans have is we see a "young" team and therefore it must have "young talent." Since Cho has been here, we have drafted picks 7, 9, 2, 31, 4, 9, 26 and now 9 again. That's FIVE top ten picks with maybe one guy who you can envision as the key defensive stopper on a championship team. The rest are role players at best, and for a team that tanked to go in a completely new direction after Larry Brown, we are right back where we started. Can't draft well, capped out, and a mediocre team.

By the way, if you want to continue using the "We just missed Anthony Davis" draft as a crutch here's Golden State's picks all made AFTER the Bobcats picked:

2012: Barnes 7th (MKG 2nd)

2012: Green 35th  (Taylor 31st)

 2011: Thompson 11th (Biz 7th, Kemba 9th)

The Warriors drafted a championship squad with no pick higher than 7th (including Curry, 7th in 2009.)

[WOW!!]

Me be  Vonleh just isn't that good, which goes back to the first paragraph in my post. We don't exactly have a good track record with drafting, and for all the flack Cliff gets regarding rotations, he played PJ OVER Henderson at the start of the season, PJ just lacked defense and made some bone headed decisions and was benched again.

The problem most Hornets fans have is we see a "young" team and therefore it must have "young talent." Since Cho has been here, we have drafted picks 7, 9, 2, 31, 4, 9, 26 and now 9 again. That's FIVE top ten picks with maybe one guy who you can envision as the key defensive stopper on a championship team. The rest are role players at best, and for a team that tanked to go in a completely new direction after Larry Brown, we are right back where we started. Can't draft well, capped out, and a mediocre team.

By the way, if you want to continue using the "We just missed Anthony Davis" draft as a crutch here's Golden State's picks all made AFTER the Bobcats picked:

2012: Barnes 7th (MKG 2nd)

2012: Green 35th  (Taylor 31st)

 2011: Thompson 11th (Biz 7th, Kemba 9th)

The Warriors drafted a championship squad with no pick higher than 7th (including Curry, 7th in 2009.)

he also played Lance over Henderson so that Pj thing doesn't mean much..  Also Hendo was hurt going into the season and had little  TC practice.. 

But it is obvious Vonleh can play and if he couldn't put him on the court so we can judge his play in actual game time..  You don't know  anything from him being on the bench..  Cliff screwed the pooch and put his personal record over  finding out  and preparing for the future... 

 

Again watch the video  it's obvious this kid has  skill sets that can be developed  into a superstar if not just a good starter... 

[cbarrier90]

he also played Lance over Henderson so that Pj thing doesn't mean much..  Also Hendo was hurt going into the season and had little  TC practice.. 

But it is obvious Vonleh can play and if he couldn't put him on the court so we can judge his play in actual game time..  You don't know  anything from him being on the bench..  Cliff screwed the pooch and put his personal record over  finding out  and preparing for the future... 

 

Again watch the video  it's obvious this kid has  skill sets that can be developed  into a superstar if not just a good starter... 

It's a highlight video on the Internet. You can find videos that make MJ look like a scrub.

[WOW!!]

I it's a highlight video on the Internet. You can find videos that make MJ look like a scrub.

it's the only video we have due to Clifford's decision... 

[cbarrier90]

it's the only video we have due to Clifford's decision... 

it's also funny you mention Fox when comparing Clifford's decision making. Remember when we all got mad that Fox hated the young players brought in towards the end of his tenure and used him as a scapegoat for all the issues the team had?

Turns out our drafts from about 2009-12 were just about the worst top to bottom in team history (maybe one or two players total still in the league) and our cap situation was terrible. Meanwhile, Fox went to the Super Bowl with Peyton Manning (granted, it's Peyton Manning, but a Super Bowl is a Super Bowl.)

I think Clifford is getting too much of the blame here for not being able to put together a decent team with a roster that at the moment is really low on talent. Does he have his flaws? Absolutely. But you'd be hard pressed to find a coach that could have done better given the circumstances last season.

[RelaxImaPro]

"I think we've seen the best Cody will be..."

The dude is fuging 22 years old, and he too has had limited play time.  I don't know what the hell some people's deal is with Zeller, but he showed a lot of promise last season (you know, his 2nd damn season in the league... but yeah, "the best" he will be) until he got injured.

I have no clue how some of you come to the conclusion that a sophomore 22 year old 7ft big man that can somewhat shoot with great athleticism that is still developing is already as good as he's going to be.  Let Cody add a more consistent mid range jumper, a speck of a post game, and passing and he will be a really damn good player.

He's one of the few players we have worth keeping on the team.

[bLACKpANTHER]

well we must have a lot of trust in Vonleh with Zeller being shopped the way he is..

[ecu88]

Mfer Vonleh was traded.......