True Detective Season Two

[Cary Kollins]

Yeah, agreed.   I didn't mean the audience doesn't feel bad for him still if that was the angle, just less so because in terms of integrity, there is some dishonesty involved...  But, he still is a very sympathetic figure because of that struggle and it just seemed like he made the best of the hand he was dealt, and judging from his "couse" of a mother, that was a reason to pull for him lol. 

And I also wanted to point out, he went out like a G.  "No! No!  fug YOU!  NO!"

I liked that part too. He looks back at him and is just pissed off.

 

I agree with Panthro, too many characters and too much going on. NP wrote this season as if it were a big novel, and it may have worked better in that medium. It's not that it's hard to understand, it's just too exhausting to find a reason to care.

Now of course the finale is going to be 90 minutes and it looks pretty badass judging by the trailer. I want to hold off judgement on the entire season until it's finishsed.

[Darth Biscuit]

But, I also think this is why Frank has become many viewers' favorite character...  To me, it feels like he has the most backstory and thus, more focused development compared to the others. 

Definitely agree with that... they've given him more screen time, or so it seems... the scenes with his wife, talking to the guys in the clubs and the deli about his past, etc...

[Darth Biscuit]

I liked that part too. He looks back at him and is just pissed off.

 

I agree with Panthro, too many characters and too much going on. NP wrote this season as if it were a big novel, and it may have worked better in that medium. It's not that it's hard to understand, it's just too exhausting to find a reason to care.

Now of course the finale is going to be 90 minutes and it looks pretty badass judging by the trailer. I want to hold off judgement on the entire season until it's finishsed.

I can see waiting until the end to judge the entire season, but (and this discussion has already been had here to a degree) given the fact that they play it as a TV show... 1 episode per week, they have to keep the viewer interested which is why there's so much talk about each episode.

Granted, the finale could knock it out of the park and it will all come together and be great... but compared to season one (and honestly that's not super fair) I don't remember one episode there that I thought, "where is this going and why do I care?"  I have thought that several times this season.

[Proudiddy]

Definitely agree with that... they've given him more screen time, or so it seems... the scenes with his wife, talking to the guys in the clubs and the deli about his past, etc...

Yeah, the "water stain" monologue is possibly my favorite from the whole season thus far. 

[Johnny Rockets]

I haven't really gotten the criticism of this season.  I get that the sheer number of main characters can be confusing, but I feel like I understand what's going on from episode to episode.  There's been times where a name pops up and I realize I forgot about them, and then there's guys who keep getting mentioned who have barely been in the picture aka Chessani.

But, all that being said, the only real criticism I had, which can actually be said about a lot of shows, is that at times, you can tell Pizzolatto is the guy writing all of this...  Do you think a real life crime boss would be waxing philosophical like Frank does?  Lol.   Would he be dropping mind-bending knowledge on the regular and be well-versed in literature?  It's possible but highly unlikely.  Same thing can be said for Ray and Ani at times...  But, I contend that the acting and execution negates any criticism that can be made.  I love the show...   I don't see a big difference from last season and imo, it's the best show on TV after TWD. 

Now, last episode was really incredible...  I agree with JR and Biscuit, Frank is a VERY likeable character in this season.  And Vince Vaughn deserves the highest award possible for his performance.  This last episode, his conversation with Ray was awe-inducing...   How chilling was it when Ray asked for the name and Frank answers him, then pauses and adds, "Hey Ray...  Show yourself out just now.  I need a moment to process all the ins and outs of this."  BUT, like I said, I think all of the main characters on this season have killed it and I'm hoping it catapults them into continued success from here. 

I have to say, I do feel differently about Paul's death than you guys did.  I felt very sympathetic towards him...  My wife did as well.  I was telling my wife, I think a common theme among the detectives this season was past trauma and how it haunted them from that point on.  I think Paul's trauma was some sort of abuse, either by his mother or people she had around him as a child, which may have led to his sexual identity issues.  It never felt like he did it because he felt that was who he was, if that makes any sense...  For example, even the incident that got him blackmailed happened after he was drunk/drugged and he immediately regretted it.  I didn't get the feeling that he was closeted, I got the feeling that he didn't know who he was but was trying to be a "good man," as he told Emily.  So, then he find out he has a child on the way, takes out entire armies of bad guys, did the heavy lifting to uncover the documents, then gets taken out by some punk bitch lurking in the shadows...  And now his child will never know its father.  Idk, that really sucks and it stayed with me even after the episode ended.  I think it was because in spite of all the corruption they were facing, once he knew he had a child on the way, he was the one person that was clear about doing things the right way...  He didn't waver on his integrity and he wanted to set things right in his personal life as well.  His death just didn't sit well with me because he appeared to be the most upstanding and had the most to live for...   He also did the most towards solving the case and saving the others through the series.  It's like I told my wife, if they would've taken Ray out there, I could live with that, because he had already cut off all ties with loved ones, and he was at peace with things.  He admittedly is a "bad guy," (although I don't believe that), and he played a part in the corruption prior to leaving the force.  So, in that sense, it made Paul's death seem unnecessary, as he didn't necessarily do anything to deserve it.  And again, yes, people make their own choices, but a lot of his struggles seemed to have stemmed from some sort of trauma, imo.  My wife was also extremely pissed at me over this episode because I watched it first and she wanted to know if any of the main characters died, and I told her no, lol...   I didn't want to spoil it. 

Going forward, I think Frank's wife is gonna roll on him in an extreme way.  It appears she has some previous knowledge or acquaintance with Osip.  Blake also told Frank that everyone was touched, except Nails...   I have questioned whether that was a purposeful red herring to throw Frank and the audience off, but we'll see...   I just really have thought Frank's wife is too convenient of a bystander in all of what's going on. 

I also don't see how Ray and Ani get out of this...  But, if we know anything from Pizzolatto, it's that he doesn't waste visual or verbal hints.  Remember when Frank bought the tickets, he made a point to ask if they were able to be modified in any way.  I'm guessing his wife exposes herself as a snake, Frank loses the will to live, and he may give Velcoro the tickets?  If Frank goes that route, I think he goes on an all out suicide mission...  From the previews, it looks like Frank is walking into the mayor of Vinci's mansion with a gun.  Still a lot for them to tie up...   How will all of the deadbodies in the tunnels be explained?  Paul's body?  Ani and Ray are wanted for murder.  Will they be able to find "Laura" and will it even matter? 

 

 

I really think that is what is going to happen also - I couldn't help to notice on the season finale trailer, there is a quick shot of Ray going up an escalator with a cowboy hat and sunglasses on (slight disguise) and a couple of people at the bottom of the escalator are wheeling suitcases around......he appears to be at the airport. Wouldn't be surprised if that is the last scene we see.

[Cary Kollins]

Ray and Ani ride off into the sunset as fugitives.

Frank goes all Scarface on the mayor.

Some of the bad guys die but the higher ups skate, similar to season one.

 

not a bad theory guys

 

edit: Frank giving Ray the tickets would also call back to the "you're the only friend I got left" line.

[Proudiddy]

I also think Frank helping Ray is Frank's way of redemption for putting him onto the wrong perp responsible for his wife's assault...  I told my wife during last episode, that when Frank asked Blake who was responsible for it and then killed him anyway, he took away Ray's chance for revenge, as Ray specifically asked for who gave him the wrong info.  Furthermore, I suspect Blake may actually be the child's biological father, although at this point, who the real father is is probably irrelevant (especially as long as Chad can eat pizza and watch Friends). 

In Frank's world, I think he is deeply hurt that he turned an otherwise good guy (Ray), bad and that he was somewhat responsible for it.  As Cary said, Frank giving Ray and Ani an out, may be his last good deed for "the only friend he has left."  Ray gave him the answers he needed, yet Frank knows he can't give Ray the favor/vengeance he needs...  Also, good look by JR bringing attention to the shot of Ray in disguise.

[SmootsDaddy89]

"okay"

 

 

*eats pizza*

[Moorgan]

But, I also think this is why Frank has become many viewers' favorite character...  To me, it feels like he has the most backstory and thus, more focused development compared to the others. 

I agree with this. But I'd go a step further and say that he's the only one that is developed. I can't really put my finger on it but I think part of why I don't get attached to any of the characters except Frank is that they are ALL so DEEPLY fugged up. It's almost like each one of the characters is simply a device to further the story and their characters are sooo deeply flawed that they become less human not more. It's like I recognize them as cardboard cut outs of their flaws and not fully developed characters.

Paul? Moody gay man with PTSD who hates being gay and hates PTSD. Ray? Moody corrupt cop who tries desperately to find redemption in a son that isn't his that hates himself for killing the guy who he thought raped his wife but also hates being corrupt because of it. Ani? She's the moody child victim of a sexual predator who has hippy father that hates men but more importantly hates herself. That is about the totality of her entire character.

It's not that I don't like this season. I've enjoyed watching it overall. But, like was said earlier, I often find myself not caring about any of the characters (except maybe Frank). Perhaps the most telling observation I can make is that there are many times while watching each episode that I think about the fact that I'm watching this tv show. I never seem to be fully engrossed in it. There's plenty of blame for that. It's not any one thing. But to compare it to the first season, most of the time I watched that show I was fully engaged, enthralled by it.

I really think the simplicity of the first season is what made it work so well. The confusion of this season is what isn't. Also killer cult is indeed better than political corruption and money.

[Dex]

Finally caught up. Ready for tonight.

[davos]

Cool finale. 

[Cary Kollins]

Initial thought,,,, should have saved 8.5 hours and just read the wiki summary. What a disappointment.

[PantherKing1983]

Overall just feel unsatisfied after watching the entire season. I think thats the best way  I can sum up after its all said and done. 

[Proudiddy]

My thoughts:

I'm pissed.  I was with Pizzolatto...  I rode with my man all through the season, and then he turns around and does this poo.  I'm really, really, really disappointed.  Unlike others, I felt the season was good throughout and I was engaged and enjoyed it just as much as the first season...   But this finale sucked major dick.  It ruined the whole season for me.  Plus, it was the first episode that I felt was poorly constructed, poorly thought out, and just seemed cobbled together.  I think the way Paul went out was the first sign that this episode was gonna suck.  It was just too unbelievable...  There were so many better options that could've been taken and every single character but Ani chose the worst one.  I mean, great...  Ray is revealed to be a "good guy" that had two children, but now one of them will never know him and the other is being raised by a conniving bitch who has trashed him his whole life...  AND CHAD WILL NOW GROW UP THINKING HIS DAD WAS A COLD BLOODED MURDERER.  Okay, Ani gave all of the info to clear Ray, Paul, and herself, but in Pizzolato's world, as evidenced by both seasons, the reporter will be killed before it sees daylight,  people will be bought and blackmailed, and business will continue as usual.  It's fuging bullshit. 

And then there's frank...   Of course, we knew once he discussed things with Jordan that he wasn't going to make it out of it alive.  But that's the part that pisses me off so bad...   For both Frank and Ray...   Both had the ability to leave, relocate safely, and then figure things out from there.  Sure, I didn't realize until after the show was over that the reason Frank didn't give up his suit was because the diamonds were in it and that's all he had left...   But that's where Pizzolatto got lazy, and why I said this was the shittiest episode he wrote in two seasons.  Why, out of all fuging things, did the guy ask for Frank's suit because Frank asked for a ride back?   LOL.   THAT IS FUGGING LAZY AND LAUGHABLE WRITING.  Two things:  1)all frank had to do was shut his fuging mouth and walk out if that desert and 2)even if he didn't, what the fug was that guy gonna do with that suit?  Make a fuging quilt?   Lol...   He was about 7 inches shorter and 50 lbs heavier than Frank.   It's fuging retarded.   So he gets stabbed up and dies in the desert for nothing.  Then we have Ray.   I get it.   He loves his son.  I'm a proud father, and that would be the hardest thing in the world to do,  IN THE SHORT TERM.  BUT, basic human instinct is to survive, FIRST AND FOREMOST.  He had plenty of money...   Get the fug gone, expose the corruption, then either come back once you're cleared or send for your son.   It was fuging stupid.   He had already basically cut off ties with his son.   The thing that pisses me off most about both scenarios, is that in both scenarios, neither guy acted on that basic human instinct.   Even for Frank...   If he gave up the suit (which is still fuging asinine that it was asked for), and lost the diamonds, he is fuging entrepreneur...   He would've figured out a way to live once he got out of the country. 

Then we have Paul...   That was still a bullshit death.

And again, I have to bring to light Pizzolato's lazy ass writing here...   The reveal of who killed Casper and why was sloppy at best...   And still makes very little sense.  Ray walking into a fuging major hub for transportation in a hat and glasses and no one recognizes him...   Then he calmly talks down a man motivated by blind revenge to take a step back from the cliff, only for the fuging idiot to spaz while listening to his discussion with Holloway.  Furthermore, what was in the bag?   Was the actual hard drive in there?   And if so, who the fug picked the bag up after the shootout?  Lol...   It certainly wasn't Burris.  

And again, to me, up until this last episode, the acting by every cast member was SUPERB...  BUT, in part, I believe that was because the actions and writing were both complementary, and believable.  This also highlights how badly this episode was executed, because it was the first episode that the characters did and said stupid, unbelievable things so the actors had to OVERACT to sell it (Ray's final message to his son on the phone that never uploaded, Ani and Ray's post-coital Montage, Ray's final "tough guy" personna call to Ani while being followed, Frank and Ray's interactions toward the end, the scarred bar owner revealing what unquestioned good guys Frank and Ray were which was all too convenient, and again, the impetus for this shittiness imo, started with Paul's death and preceding, "I think I'm about to walk into something" line).  

 

I could go on, but I'm already pissed enough...   That was just plain stupid.