True Detective Season Two

[Johnny Rockets]

This is great... http://www.slate.com/blogs/browbeat/2015/08/03/true_detective_season_two_a_guide_to_the_plot_of_this_confusing_season.html

 

Edit: fixed link...

That was good - helps me realize that I am actually following this better than I thought I was. For me, all the damn names are hard to keep up with and when they start talking about someone, I am always thinking "now who was that person again?"

I had no idea that the plastic surgeon was Rick Springfield but I knew he looked like someone but couldn't place it.  I had William Fitchner on the brain. 

[Doyle]

That was good - helps me realize that I am actually following this better than I thought I was. For me, all the damn names are hard to keep up with and when they start talking about someone, I am always thinking "now who was that person again?"

I had no idea that the plastic surgeon was Rick Springfield but I knew he looked like someone but couldn't place it.  I had William Fitchner on the brain. 

Ha!  I had no idea that was Rick Springfield.  Good for him because he did a good job playing that creepy fug.

[PantherKing1983]

So they are trying to say the girl in one of the photos was the little girl orphaned back in like 1992 that ended up being   Caspere's secretary or whatever , the question is where is the boy and which of the characters on the show weve seen already ends up being him and connected with this thing.   

 

Or did i miss something on him already ? 

[Cary Kollins]

So they are trying to say the girl in one of the photos was the little girl orphaned back in like 1992 that ended up being   Caspere's secretary or whatever , the question is where is the boy and which of the characters on the show weve seen already ends up being him and connected with this thing.   

 

Or did i miss something on him already ? 

He could be the set photographer from early in the season, as speculated by Uproxx. This is a pretty damn good and quick recap as well.

http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/08/true-detective-black-maps-and-motel-rooms-recap/8/

 

 

 

[SOJA]

love this season, I get why people dislike it, but man I'm glad I stuck with it I feel like its coming together really well 

[Bronn]

 

He could be the set photographer from early in the season, as speculated by Uproxx. This is a pretty damn good and quick recap as well.

http://uproxx.com/tv/2015/08/true-detective-black-maps-and-motel-rooms-recap/8/

 

 

 

yeah I kind of thought it was going to be the photographer

 

this was a good episode, but I agree with the statement CCS has about cult angle>political corruption

Maybe that is the simplest way of saying how I've  been feeling most of this season.

Finale should be pretty good. I'm pulling for Frank now.

[Proudiddy]

I haven't really gotten the criticism of this season.  I get that the sheer number of main characters can be confusing, but I feel like I understand what's going on from episode to episode.  There's been times where a name pops up and I realize I forgot about them, and then there's guys who keep getting mentioned who have barely been in the picture aka Chessani.

But, all that being said, the only real criticism I had, which can actually be said about a lot of shows, is that at times, you can tell Pizzolatto is the guy writing all of this...  Do you think a real life crime boss would be waxing philosophical like Frank does?  Lol.   Would he be dropping mind-bending knowledge on the regular and be well-versed in literature?  It's possible but highly unlikely.  Same thing can be said for Ray and Ani at times...  But, I contend that the acting and execution negates any criticism that can be made.  I love the show...   I don't see a big difference from last season and imo, it's the best show on TV after TWD. 

Now, last episode was really incredible...  I agree with JR and Biscuit, Frank is a VERY likeable character in this season.  And Vince Vaughn deserves the highest award possible for his performance.  This last episode, his conversation with Ray was awe-inducing...   How chilling was it when Ray asked for the name and Frank answers him, then pauses and adds, "Hey Ray...  Show yourself out just now.  I need a moment to process all the ins and outs of this."  BUT, like I said, I think all of the main characters on this season have killed it and I'm hoping it catapults them into continued success from here. 

I have to say, I do feel differently about Paul's death than you guys did.  I felt very sympathetic towards him...  My wife did as well.  I was telling my wife, I think a common theme among the detectives this season was past trauma and how it haunted them from that point on.  I think Paul's trauma was some sort of abuse, either by his mother or people she had around him as a child, which may have led to his sexual identity issues.  It never felt like he did it because he felt that was who he was, if that makes any sense...  For example, even the incident that got him blackmailed happened after he was drunk/drugged and he immediately regretted it.  I didn't get the feeling that he was closeted, I got the feeling that he didn't know who he was but was trying to be a "good man," as he told Emily.  So, then he find out he has a child on the way, takes out entire armies of bad guys, did the heavy lifting to uncover the documents, then gets taken out by some punk bitch lurking in the shadows...  And now his child will never know its father.  Idk, that really sucks and it stayed with me even after the episode ended.  I think it was because in spite of all the corruption they were facing, once he knew he had a child on the way, he was the one person that was clear about doing things the right way...  He didn't waver on his integrity and he wanted to set things right in his personal life as well.  His death just didn't sit well with me because he appeared to be the most upstanding and had the most to live for...   He also did the most towards solving the case and saving the others through the series.  It's like I told my wife, if they would've taken Ray out there, I could live with that, because he had already cut off all ties with loved ones, and he was at peace with things.  He admittedly is a "bad guy," (although I don't believe that), and he played a part in the corruption prior to leaving the force.  So, in that sense, it made Paul's death seem unnecessary, as he didn't necessarily do anything to deserve it.  And again, yes, people make their own choices, but a lot of his struggles seemed to have stemmed from some sort of trauma, imo.  My wife was also extremely pissed at me over this episode because I watched it first and she wanted to know if any of the main characters died, and I told her no, lol...   I didn't want to spoil it. 

Going forward, I think Frank's wife is gonna roll on him in an extreme way.  It appears she has some previous knowledge or acquaintance with Osip.  Blake also told Frank that everyone was touched, except Nails...   I have questioned whether that was a purposeful red herring to throw Frank and the audience off, but we'll see...   I just really have thought Frank's wife is too convenient of a bystander in all of what's going on. 

I also don't see how Ray and Ani get out of this...  But, if we know anything from Pizzolatto, it's that he doesn't waste visual or verbal hints.  Remember when Frank bought the tickets, he made a point to ask if they were able to be modified in any way.  I'm guessing his wife exposes herself as a snake, Frank loses the will to live, and he may give Velcoro the tickets?  If Frank goes that route, I think he goes on an all out suicide mission...  From the previews, it looks like Frank is walking into the mayor of Vinci's mansion with a gun.  Still a lot for them to tie up...   How will all of the deadbodies in the tunnels be explained?  Paul's body?  Ani and Ray are wanted for murder.  Will they be able to find "Laura" and will it even matter? 

 

 

[Cary Kollins]

I too felt bad when Paul died. I liked his character a lot. But I don't think there is any question he was in the closet. He had to pop Viagra to bone his insanely hot girlfriend, then he stood there all uninterested while she gave him a beejer. He is/was a gay man trying to "be a good man" aka fighting his own sexuality. 

[Panthro]

Besides the mumbling dialogue I think I have two issues with this season. The secondary characters were too hard to follow. I was like Who the fug is that guy in the tunnel and that whacked Paul. I pay attention as well. My TV room is void of any distractions. The other issue is the lack of character development. Each one of the main 3 cops and Frank could have carried this whole season and delving into either story would have been interesting to me. 

Ani - her past,  dad, sister, partners

Paul - Sexuality, Blackwater, mother, wife

Ray - kid, dad, ex wife, crooked past etc

[Proudiddy]

 

 Valid points, CK.  I think I just viewed it from that theme of "trauma" more than anything else.  I feel like if he was closeted, he would've embraced his sexuality with others who shared similar feelings (i.e. his buddy from blackwater).  The only reason I find that to be a point worth discussion was because like I said, following the trauma theme among the detectives, if we are to assume he was abused as a child, and it led to some sort of sexual dysfunction with women or confusion on his own sexuality, that led him to what ultimately cost him his life...  Many people on reddit suspected him to be a victim of sexual abuse following the episode where his mother was introduced. I viewed his backstory to parallel with Ray murdering a man he believed to be his wife's rapist turned him into a corrupt drunk and Ani's abuse led to her promiscuity and inability to maintain a meaningful relationship with a man.  In Paul's case, if you rule out the possibility of abuse as a child, and he simply was a closeted gay man, then it removes a lot of the sympathy for him because in that case, he was misleading his girlfriend, impregnated her, and ultimately, was a dishonest character lacking integrity (much like Ray)...  Imo, he would still be a sympathetic figure in that case, but less so because he was knowingly being dishonest with himself and others.  I also read someone on the TD reddit at the beginning of the season say that they would be disappointed in Pizzolato if he took the "angry, closet homosexual" angle with Paul, because it was too easy, and I tended to agree...   But as his buddy told him, if he would've just been honest, they wouldn't have had any leverage on him.  I think that's why I want to give him a pass, because it seemed like something he struggled with rather than something he embraced and knew for certain. 

 

Ultimately, I think this discussion illustrates an important point, and why I think Paul's death was so jarring... Because there were still so many unanswered questions and his character had so much depth to it.

[Darth Biscuit]

Besides the mumbling dialogue I think I have two issues with this season. The secondary characters were too hard to follow. I was like Who the fug is that guy in the tunnel and that whacked Paul. I pay attention as well. My TV room is void of any distractions. The other issue is the lack of character development. Each one of the main 3 cops and Frank could have carried this whole season and delving into either story would have been interesting to me. 

Ani - her past,  dad, sister, partners

Paul - Sexuality, Blackwater, mother, wife

Ray - kid, dad, ex wife, crooked past etc

In a roundabout way, I agree with the character development... I thought there was TOO much of it, but it was because there were so many characters... we didn't really get to see a lot of them individually and none of them got fully developed because of that.

[Cary Kollins]

I think his childhood abuse, PTSD and closeted sexuality all comes into play.

 

I don't think Paul is dishonest or a bad person because he is closeted, he is just unwilling to accept it, thinking if he acts straight eventually it will become true. I think that happens to millions of people everyday. He's more tortured than anything, which makes it harder to watch him go out like that.

[Proudiddy]

 

 

I think his childhood abuse, PTSD and closeted sexuality all comes into play.

 

I don't think Paul is dishonest or a bad person because he is closeted, he is just unwilling to accept it, thinking if he acts straight eventually it will become true. I think that happens to millions of people everyday. He's more tortured than anything, which makes it harder to watch him go out like that.

Yeah, agreed.   I didn't mean the audience doesn't feel bad for him still if that was the angle, just less so because in terms of integrity, there is some dishonesty involved...  But, he still is a very sympathetic figure because of that struggle and it just seemed like he made the best of the hand he was dealt, and judging from his "couze" of a mother, that was a reason to pull for him lol. 

And I also wanted to point out, he went out like a G.  "No! No!  fug YOU!  NO!" 

[Proudiddy]

In a roundabout way, I agree with the character development... I thought there was TOO much of it, but it was because there were so many characters... we didn't really get to see a lot of them individually and none of them got fully developed because of that.

But, I also think this is why Frank has become many viewers' favorite character...  To me, it feels like he has the most backstory and thus, more focused development compared to the others.