Newton vs Ryan; the verdict?

[†William Moore†]

Newton has a yd/att of 7.5 with Ryan at 7.2. Ryan attempts more throws than Cam does every single year. Looking at their yd/att and factoring in completions %, Newton will have better yds than Ryan. We just don't pass as much as a team hence the decline in passing yds.

Cam reached 4,000yds throwing less than Ryan had to do to achieve the same yardage.

​Cam was barely 51 yards over in any case and hasn't been able to repeat it. 

[TheRed]

"Ryan completes 64 percent of his passes; Newton 59.5 percent. Ryan has thrown for more than 4,000 yards in four consecutive seasons; Newton has done that once, his rookie year in 2011. Ryan's touchdown to interception ratio is 2.3; Newton's is 2.8. Ryan has thrown 22 or more touchdowns in six consecutive seasons; Newton has surpassed 21 once, throwing 24 in 2013. Ryan makes better overall decisions. He's a better pocket passer. He's got a better record (64-44 to 30-31-1). He's had four seasons of 10-plus wins; Newton has one."

http://espn.go.com/blog/carolina-panthers/post/_/id/13990

You can use that 'first four years' argument all day, fact is it's flawed because players have a tendency to do this thing called "getting better" Ryan went from being a game manager to a legit NFL QB over the course of his career. As of right now, he is without a doubt better than Cam Newton.

He probably still will be in a few years as well, if you wanna make that argument. Looking at Cam's yardage numbers go down every year and his TDs and INTs fluctuate randomly. I'll even include his rushing stats because they go down as well (even though they're not a QB stat)

2011-
4,051 passing yards, 21 TDs, 17 INTs
706 rushing yards, 14 TDs

2012-
3,869 passing yards, 19 TDs, 12 INTs
741 rushing yards, 8 TDs

2013-
3,379 passing yards, 24 TDs, 13 INTs
585 rushing yards, 6 TDs

2014-
3,127 passing yards, 18 TDs, 12 INTs
539 rushing yards, 5 TDs

Now the obvious rebuttal is: " well if Ryan can get better why can't Cam??"

Here's the thing about that: If you want base your arguments in numbers (like you have) Ryan's went up in almost every category the first four years he was in the league.  You can see his progression. The only thing that stands out is his passing yards went down from 2008-2009. However, looking at the years following compared with his first year, it's an obvious aberration. Cam's have only regressed or stayed around the same exact clip. There's nothing that's an outlier with his stats.

Here's Ryan:

2008-
3,440 passing yards, 16 TDs, 11 INTs

2009-
2,916 passing yards, 22 TDs, 14 INTs

2010-
3,705 passing yards, 28 TDs, 9 INTs

2011-
4,117 passing yards, 29 TDs, 12 INTs

It's funny, because Cam's first four years put in a vacuum and compared to others make him look great. But when you actually take a look at them, he's going down and inconsistency is really the only thing he's been consistent at.

So in reality...Ryan is better now, and will probably still be better in three years. Why? He is consistent and Cam shows sign of being that or getting any better.

So I pose a question Panthers fans, and I want serious discussion: What makes you think Cam will get any better? The numbers say he probably won't, the eye test shows he wasn't really 'himself' last year, and he just got a big contract. Is there any reason besides homerism to think he's going to turn it around all of a sudden?

​Direct comparisons total yardage wise are just about entirely pointless. You can put up a ton of yardage, but if you only have 1  playoff win in 7 years, who really gives a poo? You should know this firsthand.

But if you are going to compare a guy only 4 years in, with a guy 8 years in, why would the hell would you not look at first 4 years?

You've proven yourself time and time again to generally be fairly useless in regards to a rational discussion about rival players. I'll tell you first off that Ryan is a good QB, but if you genuinely think that Newton doesn't even belong in the same conversation as Ryan, then you are a moron.

If you really want to look at each QB, look at what they bring to their respective teams. What matters most? Reaching the end zone.

Cam Newton first 4 years:

115 touchdowns

Matt Ryan first 4 years:

99 touchdowns

[†William Moore†]

​Direct comparisons total yardage wise are just about entirely pointless. You can put up a ton of yardage, but if you only have 1  playoff win in 7 years, who really gives a poo? You should know this firsthand.

But if you are going to compare a guy only 4 years in, with a guy 8 years in, why would the hell would you not look at first 4 years?

You've proven yourself time and time again to generally be fairly useless in regards to a rational discussion about rival players. I'll tell you first off that Ryan is a good QB, but if you genuinely think that Newton doesn't even belong in the same conversation as Ryan, then you are a moron.

If you really want to look at each QB, look at what they bring to their respective teams. What matters most? Reaching the end zone.

Cam Newton first 4 years:

115 touchdowns

Matt Ryan first 4 years:

99 touchdowns

​Lol where did I say he wasn't in the conversation. I think Cam is up there in the 10-15 realm, but Ryan is arguably a fringe top 10 guy. They're close, but no doubt in my mind based on the winning, numbers, and eye test that Ryan is better. I'm not saying Cam is a terrible QB. He has all the tools to be great. Something just isn't clicking,

 

Even with that first 4 years argument, Ryan clearly got better while Cam is not. He can put up all the numbers he wants, but he hasn't shown progression like Ryan did.

 

And you're post contradicts itself with the whole TD thing. "You can put up a ton of yardage, but if you only have 1  playoff win in 7 years who really gives a poo?"

 

How about: "You can up a bunch of TDs, but if you're only averaging 8 wins per season, who really gives a poo?"

 

 

 

 

[CelibatePimp]

​Cam was barely 51 yards over in any case and hasn't been able to repeat it. 

It's hard to repeat that when he has never had to throw that much again. His highest number of attempts in a season came in his rookie year where he had the 4,000ds (with less attempts than Ryan needed to get to 4,000). I mean it's simple math, the more times you throw, the more yards you'll get.

[†William Moore†]

It's hard to repeat that when he has never had to throw that much again. His highest number of attempts in a season came in his rookie year where he had the 4,000ds (with less attempts than Ryan needed to get to 4,000). I mean it's simple math, the more times you throw, the more yards you'll get.

​When you're not a good passer, you're not gonna be throwing the ball that much in an NFL offense. 

[CelibatePimp]

​Lol where did I say he wasn't in the conversation. I think Cam is up there in the 10-15 realm, but Ryan is arguably a fringe top 10 guy. They're close, but no doubt in my mind based on the winning, numbers, and eye test that Ryan is better. I'm not saying Cam is a terrible QB. He has all the tools to be great. Something just isn't clicking,

 

Even with that first 4 years argument, Ryan clearly got better while Cam is not. He can put up all the numbers he wants, but he hasn't shown progression like Ryan did.

 

And you're post contradicts itself with the whole TD thing. "You can put up a ton of yardage, but if you only have 1  playoff win in 7 years who really gives a poo?"

 

How about: "You can up a bunch of TDs, but if you're only averaging 8 wins per season, who really gives a poo?"

 

 

 

 

​If your progression argument is based on yards alone, then it is very flawed. The ONLY reason his yds have gone down is because he attempts less passes now. Can you point anything else that has been in steady decline since his rookie season?

[CelibatePimp]

​When you're not a good passer, you're not gonna be throwing the ball that much in an NFL offense. 

​So after breaking the rookie record for the highest number of yds by a rookie, he became a bad passer during the offseason?

[†William Moore†]

​So after breaking the rookie record for the highest number of yds by a rookie, he became a bad passer during the offseason?

​You really gonna sit here and tell me he's not an inconsistent passer? 

[†William Moore†]

​If your progression argument is based on yards alone, then it is very flawed. The ONLY reason his yds have gone down is because he attempts less passes now. Can you point anything else that has been in steady decline since his rookie season?

​Ryan's passing TDs went up every year as did his yards. Cam's numbers have only either went down or stayed in the same area, even his rushing yards. 

[TheRed]

​Lol where did I say he wasn't in the conversation. I think Cam is up there in the 10-15 realm, but Ryan is arguably a fringe top 10 guy. They're close, but no doubt in my mind based on the winning, numbers, and eye test that Ryan is better. I'm not saying Cam is a terrible QB. He has all the tools to be great. Something just isn't clicking,

 

Even with that first 4 years argument, Ryan clearly got better while Cam is not. He can put up all the numbers he wants, but he hasn't shown progression like Ryan did.

 

And you're post contradicts itself with the whole TD thing. "You can put up a ton of yardage, but if you only have 1  playoff win in 7 years who really gives a poo?"

 

How about: "You can up a bunch of TDs, but if you're only averaging 8 wins per season, who really gives a poo?"

 

 

 

 

​Ryan has been inconsistent (look at his touchdown - interception ratio the last 2 seasons) at times as Newton has.

What matters more, yards, or points?

[CelibatePimp]

​Ryan's passing TDs went up every year as did his yards. Cam's numbers have only either went down or stayed in the same area, even his rushing yards. 

​Ok so that's not a steady decline as you have been parroting everywhere you go. If you had looked carefully, you'd realize it was due to the fact that the number of attempts have decreased that's all.

[CelibatePimp]

​You really gonna sit here and tell me he's not an inconsistent passer? 

​That wasn't the point. That same inconsistent passer broke the rookie record for passing. It took Luck an whopping 110 more attempts to break that record. Newton doesn't throw as much anymore and hence the dip in yds.

[TheRed]

Also, the total yards poo William Moore keeps babbling on about is really getting ridiculous when you look at pass attempts.

Each season that Ryan has thrown for 4,000+ yards, he's had at least 566-651 passing attempts.

The one season that Newton even had 500 passing attempts (it was 517) was his rookie year, and he passed for over 4,000 yards.

[CelibatePimp]

​Ryan's passing TDs went up every year as did his yards. Cam's numbers have only either went down or stayed in the same area, even his rushing yards.

​You are well aware that Cam missed two games last season? The difference between his rushing in 2013 and 2014; 46yds. Newton would have easily made 46yds over those two games against the Bucs, considering he was averaging more than he did per rush attempt in 2013.