"No debate" these QBs are better than Cam Newton

[CelibatePimp]

​If you want to use "stats" that are dependent on factors other than the o-line play, lets use the fact that Seattle has been toward the top of the league in rushing yards for the past few years, where Carolina has been upper middle class.  How bout rushing TDs?  Seattle #1, Carolina #21.  Rushing plays for negative yards?  Carolina 46, Seattle 41.  Anyone can bend stats to fit their agenda.  Bottom line, if you watch both O-lines and think Carolina's is better than Seattle's then you're not paying attention.  Seattle's isn't great by any means, but the simple fact they weren't starting Bell and Chandler means they were better.

​So Wilson has the better oline based on "watching" them play? Some of you guys are interesting to say the least. Cam has the worst supporting cast in NFL history and no other QB is allowed to have it worse even if the evidence points otherwise.

[JawnyBlaze]

Your "evidence" is circumstantial at best. Trying to use cherry picked stats is an "interesting" method as well. There is no better way to judge a performance than to watch it....I dunno how you expect to. Listen? Smell?

[CelibatePimp]

if you can watch, you can count (hopefully). That's how those stats came about. So how would you judge QB protection? Please give us a stat that shows that CAR's oline does not protect Cam better than RW's oline other than your eye.

[Mr. Scot]

​So Wilson has the better oline based on "watching" them play? Some of you guys are interesting to say the least. Cam has the worst supporting cast in NFL history and no other QB is allowed to have it worse even if the evidence points otherwise.

​I'll take actually watching a game, a player and a team over a stat sheet ten times out of ten.

You can't judge OL simply by QB hits without factoring in how mobile the QB is.  The whole notion is ridiculous.  And there's no stat that effectively quantifies mobility (no, QB rushing doesn't work for that).

Stats were what told us that David carr was a great QB because he had a great completion percentage, but when you looked closer you realized all he threw were short, high percentage passes.

Anytime someone comes to me telling me they can judge football teams and players by stats alone, I proceed from there with the assumption that the person in question doesn't know much about football.

 

[CelibatePimp]

​I'll take actually watching a game, a player and a team over a stat sheet ten times out of ten.

You can't judge OL simply by QB hits without factoring in how mobile the QB is.  The whole notion is ridiculous.  And there's no stat that effectively quantifies mobility (no, QB rushing doesn't work for that).

Stats were what told us that David carr was a great QB because he had a great completion percentage, but when you looked closer you realized all he threw were short, high percentage passes.

Anytime someone comes to me telling me they can judge football teams and players by stats alone, I proceed from there with the assumption that the person in question doesn't know much about football.

We don't get to watch every player play in every single game. Stats are the only objective measure we have. I see as many games as I can and the stats are never too far from the reality. 15TDs is 15TDs etc. There is a context to every stat yes but generally it gives you the idea. From different outlets SEA's oline has ranked piss poor in pass protection compared to CAR. You can go over to SEA's board and ask them, they will tell you the same thing. At that point, the stats becomes the reality.

I am never going to waste my time to argue with someone who say oh, my eyes tell me better, when professional eyes from different establishments confirm what you have seen.

And what stats make Carr and great QB? David Carr? There is no season in Carr's career where any stat show him as a great QB.

[Jimmy]

I would say he is better than Ryan at this point in his career.  If you look at their stats it is a damn near tie...but then you include the rushing statistics and it's no contest.  Leverage the fact that Cam has played with a poo line and only limited weapons...the case is clear in my mind he is better than Ryan.

[h0llywood]

With all that said, Peyton Manning's descent from the top is getting a little ridiculous. Peyton Manning went from having a historical best season to having a "slump" in 2014.

Did he struggle his last 5 games? Absolutely, however, 4,727 yards, 39 TDs, 101.5 QBRating is hardly a slump.

[Semaj]

Well obviously this is another guy with an agenda. An agenda against Cam Newton. Cutler? Kap? Really? Lol

[General_Purr]

Brady Ben Brees Wilson is all that catches my eye. 

No other QB has anything close to what Cam can bring. I hate how this anti carolina media poo is bashing Cam for saying pretty obvouis statements. The closest to his size? Big Ben maybe? He is great and all but does not have the speed, lateral movement, arm that Cam does. He has experience on a great franchise and will go down as a great, Cam came into a poor team, slowly trying to turn things around. He has done well IMO..

[Mr. Scot]

We don't get to watch every player play in every single game. Stats are the only objective measure we have. I see as many games as I can and the stats are never too far from the reality. 15TDs is 15TDs etc. There is a context to every stat yes but generally it gives you the idea. From different outlets SEA's oline has ranked piss poor in pass protection compared to CAR. You can go over to SEA's board and ask them, they will tell you the same thing. At that point, the stats becomes the reality.

I am never going to waste my time to argue with someone who say oh, my eyes tell me better, when professional eyes from different establishments confirm what you have seen.

And what stats make Carr and great QB? David Carr? There is no season in Carr's career where any stat show him as a great QB.

​Stats arent "objective" if you have no context.  They're largely worthless.

You sound like someone who only watches Panther games. I watch every game I can.  But even if you only see our own games, you have the chance to check out at least 13 other teams.  Watch more, and learn more.

Like i said before, if you really believe you can get the full story from stats, it tells me your knowledge of the game needs work.

[CelibatePimp]

​Stats arent "objective" if you have no context.  They're largely worthless.

You sound like someone who only watches Panther games. I watch every game I can.  But even if you only see our own games, you have the chance to check out at least 13 other teams.  Watch more, and learn more.

Like i said before, if you really believe you can get the full story from stats, it tells me your knowledge of the game needs work.

​In this context, we were talking QB protection. The stats bear out what I have seen as well as many other people who watch more football than us both combined to come up with those stats. You have no idea how much football I watch. If you watched as much football as I did (including SEA games), you will come to the same conclusion and you probably wouldn't have swallowed "David Carr is a great QB according to stats" line.

 

[TheRed]

​So Wilson has the better oline based on "watching" them play? Some of you guys are interesting to say the least. Cam has the worse supporting cast in NFL history and no other QB is allowed to have it worse even if the evidence points otherwise.

​OL between the Seahawks and Panthers is probably close to a push.

That D in Seattle protects Wilson more than anything, except Lynch of course.

Let me ask you this, when was the last time the Seahawks defense was blown out once, let alone 6 times in one season?

The Panthers offense last year wasn't built to keep up with high powered offenses. Luckily we've added much needed help this offseason.

[B.BERSIN]

I can't help but shaking my head when someone thinks Big Ben better than Cam is still debatable.

LMFAO.

[B.BERSIN]

​

​I agree with this, but I would swap Romo and Big Ben.  Ben has the rings and the stone cold playoff record, Romo has the exact opposite but he still puts up numbers during the regular season.  

​Actually Romo is really a great qb IMO, went from a UDFA to starting qb for Cowboys for many years, he's underrated. Yeah he sucks in final weeks of many seasons and he struggled in the playoffs, if that's what we are talking about, only quarterbacks should be on this list would be Brady, Big Ben, Rodgers, Wilson and Eli.

Peyton Manning sucks in the playoffs too.