A little trouble in paradise (Seattle)? RW contract talks

[TheRed]

Look I think Wilson deserves a contract, but when people say "he won a Super Bowl" it is almost laughable.

 

That was one of the worst Super Bowls ever. The Broncos didn't even manage to score a touchdown until the 4th quarter when they were already down 30+ points.

 

Seattle could have had Big Bird out there behind center, it was a terribly lopsided game. The Broncos were purely awful.

[coralreefer_1]

Wilson didn't win a Super Bowl, the Seahawks did. This ain't tennis. But if you're going to say Wilson personally won a Super Bowl you also gotta say he personally lost one too. Sounds like it evens out.

 

And Cam alone may or may not win us a superbowl..the Panthers will (or not)

 

The only difference is one team has won it once, been to a second, and otherwise dominated the league over the past few years. The other (us) have no such claim. Hell, most of the people here measure our team against Seattle.

 

I dont have an issue with Cam getting paid big money (even if it breaks the team) But to say (and i havent seen that he has but everyone seems to put words in his mouth that he will) ask for  RW type money is a joke, and in my opinion would make Cam more big-headed than people are accusing Wilson of being.

 

I know we are all homers for Cam and out team, but step out of the box for a moment and look at the RESULTS. Anyone who thinks Gettleman is just gonna ignore these things and dish out the kind of money people say RW is demanding to Cam is dreaming.

[panthers55]

Newton came into the NFL with 1 year at Auburn, and a limited first offseason due to the lockout, and still went on to become the rookie of the year. Your "Cam was not ready for the NFL" logic has holes in it bud. If you want to frame it any possible way it would be that the Panthers football team wasn't ready. Specifically our defense in 2011. Whereas with Seattle, Wilson came into a very good team with a top defense. Pretty significantly different situation in that regard.

 

Also, I like how you once again conveniently leave out a few other notable facts in your argument. In 2010, before they had even drafted Wilson, Pete Carroll had the Seahawks in the playoffs at 7-9, and knocked off the Saints on their way to the divisional playoff game with an aging Matt Hasslebeck. Where were the Panthers the few years before Newton was drafted? Yeah, about that...

 

Oh, and one more thing, Pete Carroll already had quite a bit of head coaching experience, and wasn't learning on the fly like Rivera was in Newton's first year.

 

Regardless, make no mistake, both players are going to get paid big. No matter how much some people want to complain, it's going to happen.

You obviously dont understand the difference between a content argument and a process argument,  so I wont go back and forth. I dont have to read more than you think Cam was plug and play for the NFL  like Wilson was to know this is going nowhere.  You take every comment as a cut or put down to Cam and that is the filter you read everything through. And you have since you started posting.  Nothing new there. I get all the reasons he hasn't been as successful and as I said many are legitimate.  But if you ever have been part of any negotiations you know that excuses don't care much weight, results do.  He will still get a ton of money but in all these negotiations they line up your stats, results, and other factors and compare you to what other guys are getting paid. Of course there are always exceptions like Romo who got paid a ton with little results.  If I were Cam I would using him as my comparison not Wilson. Again this year should be a huge factor given he can't complain about weapons, defense, or even coaching.     

[tondi]

Would love to see them trade Wilson to somewhere like Jacksonville where he could get paid, get his ass pounded in the turf every week and lose 12 games a year. Guess we will see who blinks first.

[TheRed]

You obviously dont understand the difference between a content argument and a process argument,  so I wont go back and forth. I dont have to read more than you think Cam was plug and play for the NFL  like Wilson was to know this is going nowhere.  You take every comment as a cut or put down to Cam and that is the filter you read everything through. And you have since you started posting.  Nothing new there. I get all the reasons he hasn't been as successful and as I said many are legitimate.  But if you ever have been part of any negotiations you know that excuses don't care much weight, results do.  He will still get a ton of money but in all these negotiations they line up your stats, results, and other factors and compare you to what other guys are getting paid. Of course there are always exceptions like Romo who got paid a ton with little results.  If I were Cam I would using him as my comparison not Wilson. Again this year should be a huge factor given he can't complain about weapons, defense, or even coaching.     

 

So basically, instead of even remotely attempting to refute the information I provided you, instead you just go on to accuse me of not understanding your failed argument.

 

Great rebuttal p55. Thanks for that.

 

To be clear, I think this is and should be Newton's year. My main concern right now is left tackle. I don't like going into the season with the position being a bigger question mark now than it was at this point last year. We knew that Byron Bell was not starting LT material, but we had limited options. I'm just hoping that Oher is the player that our FO believes he is. Our season will depend on it.

[panthers55]

And Cam alone may or may not win us a superbowl..the Panthers will (or not)

 

The only difference is one team has won it once, been to a second, and otherwise dominated the league over the past few years. The other (us) have no such claim. Hell, most of the people here measure our team against Seattle.

 

I dont have an issue with Cam getting paid big money (even if it breaks the team) But to say (and i havent seen that he has but everyone seems to put words in his mouth that he will) ask for  RW type money is a joke, and in my opinion would make Cam more big-headed than people are accusing Wilson of being.

 

I know we are all homers for Cam and out team, but step out of the box for a moment and look at the RESULTS. Anyone who thinks Gettleman is just gonna ignore these things and dish out the kind of money people say RW is demanding to Cam is dreaming.

Most of the folks here defending Cam are just pointing out why he hasnt been as successful as Wilson and want to justify it.  As you noted they dont understand the business side of it and those excuses will be made by his agent but will carry little weight.  I think this year will go a long way to determining what happens with Cam and both sides know it.  I bet Gettleman is hoping that Cam has a fantastic year so when he does get the big bucks both sides will feel they have their guy for the next 6 or 7 years. But as you note, right now Cam would be top getting top 10 money not top 1 or 2 based on his results. 

[coralreefer_1]

Most of the folks here defending Cam are just pointing out why he hasnt been as successful as Wilson and want to justify it.  As you noted they dont understand the business side of it and those excuses will be made by his agent but will carry little weight.  I think this year will go a long way to determining what happens with Cam and both sides know it.  I bet Gettleman is hoping that Cam has a fantastic year so when he does get the big bucks both sides will feel they have their guy for the next 6 or 7 years. But as you note, right now Cam would be top getting top 10 money not top 1 or 2 based on his results. 

 

Yeah, I understand that. My point is though...that our defense is pretty badass to say the least. And while we havent had a wonderful running game and dealt with injuries and less that stellar talent on the o-line, we are all hoping all of that turns around this year.

 

So then lets take some of these peoples argument and turn it around. Lets imagine we do win the superbowl this year. Can we justify paying cam LESS for the simple fact that a badass defense got us there? Our defense is the main reason we have been as competitive as we have been the last 2 seasons...so I would put forth that as great as Cam is and all the plays that he has made here in there, it was our DEFENSE that kept us in games and competitive as it were. Can any QB say they won a ring without the help of the team overall (which is basically what some are saying Wilson is lacking...poor guy played on a good team so poo on him)

[panthers55]

So basically, instead of even remotely attempting to refute the information I provided you, instead you just go on to accuse me of not understanding your failed argument.

 

Great rebuttal p55. Thanks for that.

 

To be clear, I think this is and should be Newton's year. My main concern right now is left tackle. I don't like going into the season with the position being a bigger question mark now than it was at this point last year. We knew that Byron Bell was not starting LT material, but we had limited options. I'm just hoping that Oher is the player that our FO believes he is. Our season will depend on it.

There is nothing to rebutt.  No is arguing that many of the things you said may be true.  They wont matter in a negotiation over salary and contract.  Sure Cam's agent will bring it all up and Gettleman will just say he disagrees and the way these negotiations go is that they look at the bottom line.

 

You are talking apples and those of us talking contract are talking oranges.  That is what you dont get or you would stop making the same old excuses.  Dont tell why the rest of the team let him down or how he couldn't do it alone which is true, Dont tell me about lack of weapons or O line because that again wont carry much weight.  Tell me how he compares in bottom line stats or results that he deserves the same money that Wilson does right now.   That would include how many 4th quarter comebacks he has versus Wilson's combacks. Performance in playoffs and head to head match-ups.  Quality stats like TD to INT ratio, completion percentage, etc.  Rushing TDs.  ( I am trying to help you here)   There is an argument to be made that could carry weight but what you have talked about so far wouldnt carry much weight.

 

I dont mind discussing it if you can give me something that is germaine to what will be discussed in a contract discussion.

[panthers55]

Yeah, I understand that. My point is though...that our defense is pretty badass to say the least. And while we havent had a wonderful running game and dealt with injuries and less that stellar talent on the o-line, we are all hoping all of that turns around this year.

 

So then lets take some of these peoples argument and turn it around. Lets imagine we do win the superbowl this year. Can we justify paying cam LESS for the simple fact that a badass defense got us there? Our defense is the main reason we have been as competitive as we have been the last 2 seasons...so I would put forth that as great as Cam is and all the plays that he has made here in there, it was our DEFENSE that kept us in games and competitive as it were. Can any QB say they won a ring without the help of the team overall (which is basically what some are saying Wilson is lacking...poor guy played on a good team so poo on him)

I am sure that the defense argument is something that the Seattle management is using in their discussions with Wilson. And Wilson is saying it was the offense and 4th quarter comebacks which made the difference.  Truth is that it was the New England defense that won that game after Wilson drove them down to the 1.  But yeah that is why these negotiations are not cut and dry. 

[MadHatter]

In no way is this good news for us bc Cam is gonna want every penny that RW gets and more. Which, he should. I'm sure he believes he is better than Wilson, which I think he is too.

I just wish players weren't so greedy this days. Why can't one guy say, "You know what? I care more about winning. I'll take a lesser deal so we have more money to improve the rest of the team and give us the best chance winning possible."

 

Because it flat out is a business for these guys.

 

You would never take less than market value for your salary just so the company could be more profitable.....would you?

 

[AceBoogie]

Russell has won a Super Bowl and been to another, been a contender since he got there. Now I don't believe he is the reason for all that, but he is the QB of that team. At one point his back up's back up was getting paid more than he was. Rape em Russell, get all your money man.

[heel31ok]

they already know about where this is going to end up , it will be done and they will all be happy about it when it is over. I don't see Russell going anywhere for a while.

[B.BERSIN]

I have no problem paying Cam ridiculous money. I think we are set up to do just that.

Gman has problem on that fortunately.

[MHS831]

He is a smart point guard of a qb, but not a guy who carries the team.  He plays the humble, modest qb, but lets face it, he is believing the hype.

 

And that is all it is.  Put him in Jax, NY, Buffalo, etc. and he is average or below average.

 

Seattle should play hard ball, and go shopping for another game manager.  Next year should be a good one.  But if you want to keep your Shermans and your Chancellors and your Beast modes, you can't overpay for a game manager.