Corvey Irvin and Sherrod Martin Better Prove Their Worth, and Quick...

[cgarsmoker]

Rookies are rookies no matter what round and most don't start at most positions outside of running back. Otah was a very pleasant surprise for us last year as was Beason the year before. Godfrey started but only because we had no one better. He cost us a lot of blown coverages last year.

Expecting Martin to play nickel which is often considered harder than corner in many offenses is pretty unrealistic wjhether he was a natural corner or not.

Gamble started at corner as a rookie, Marshall started at the nickel as rookie so did Ricky Manning back in the day....Munnerlyn may even start at nickel corner this year. I was hoping Martin as a 2nd round pick, would be able to continue that trend. I'm not giving up on the guy but I was expecting a little bit more. As of now, our 7th round selection is ahead of him. Maybe I was expecting too much? We'll see how it works out as the season goes along.

[Proudiddy]

It's way too early to judge Brown or Irvin though.

Exactly. But the point I've tried to make the entire thread is that Irvin has a greater burden to prove himself than anyone else, b/c the other picks we're justified with their value/performance thus far.

Watching each game, once a week (no Tivo/DVR), tell me how much of Irvin you have seen in games? How many plays did you see him make? Or a move/technique that looked promising?

I'm not judging him thus far just off that, I'm combining it with the fact that he was a reach at that pick, the DT position could've been better addressed, and reports from camp. The guy even volunteered to try to replace Kemo's position and still is playing behind Hayden and Favorite from what I've seen.

Now, we all know he isn't built to be Kemo's replacement, and it was a nice gesture, but to still be buried under guys like Hayden and Favorite when you were our 3rd round pick doesn't fair well IMO.

Yes, he can be a totally different player with coaching and development, but I don't think the staff is holding him in high regard right now just from the current playing time given to the DTs and other factors.

Hayden isn't a run stopper guy (and from games, he's not a pass rusher either), yet, he's playing ahead of Irvin who people in this thread said was drafted for pass rushing... That's the point I'm making. He's got to prove more faster because of the circumstances. I'm not saying he sucks, he's done, he's gone, it's over... Although so many of these internet jockriders are more than willing to try to put words in my mouth.

[Proudiddy]

Proudiddy people are telling why DT don't jump right in and make a impact.

1.Speed of the game

2. Size and Strength of the Guards and tackles in the Pros compared too college.

3. Technique that take time too learn in the pros when you mostly use god given talent in college.

It's harder for a DT's, WR's, QB's, CB's, C, and S's too make a instant impact then it is for T,G, DE, LB and RB.

Sometime you get lucky but mostly it takes time for player too develop.

I get that.... But I think people are being extremely selective in what positions are subject to this learning curve, just for the sake of arguing, rather than looking at the guy's body of work from college to this point.

[The Link]

Bill Belichick has never drafted a stud RB; therefore, he is not a good drafter person.

[/Clemson fan football logic]

Not good at drafting RB's.

[panthers55]

Gamble started at corner as a rookie, Marshall started at the nickel as rookie so did Ricky Manning back in the day....Munnerlyn may even start at nickel corner this year. I was hoping Martin as a 2nd round pick, would be able to continue that trend. I'm not giving up on the guy but I was expecting a little bit more. As of now, our 7th round selection is ahead of him. Maybe I was expecting too much? We'll see how it works out as the season goes along.

You just answered your question with your examples. Gamble did start and was not very good. He got lots of Ints because he was always jumping routes but got burned just as often. His interceptions have gone down as his skill level has improved because he is where he should be now. After his first 2 years folks were calling for his head if you remember.

Marshall played alot in 2006 primarily due to injury. There are still questions about how good he really is.

Ricky Manning started 7 games for us in 2003 and I believe his was due to injury as well. The fact that he has been shipped around and now is with Oakland tells you that he may have started but he is nothing more than a backup.

If Munnerlyn starts for us at nickel which I doubt, it will be either a testament to his hard work or our poor secondary at this point. Because some guys have started over the years doesn't mean they should have or were all that good. It is more an indictment of our secondary which has rarely been in the top 10 in defense in our franchise history. Martin isn't good enough to start in a good secondary. If he starts expect a bunch of mistakes and blown coverages. I certainly hope he doesn't start. After all the Godfrey mistakes I am looking for a veteran to come in and play well this year.

Maybe it is just me but why would anyone start a rookie if they didn't have to. Seems to me rookies make mistakes which are part of the game. But I would rather have a veteran and groom the rookie instead of put him out there right away and learn by making plenty of mistakes.

[cgarsmoker]

You just answered your question with your examples. Gamble did start and was not very good. He got lots of Ints because he was always jumping routes but got burned just as often. His interceptions have gone down as his skill level has improved because he is where he should be now. After his first 2 years folks were calling for his head if you remember.

Marshall played alot in 2006 primarily due to injury. There are still questions about how good he really is.

Ricky Manning started 7 games for us in 2003 and I believe his was due to injury as well. The fact that he has been shipped around and now is with Oakland tells you that he may have started but he is nothing more than a backup.

If Munnerlyn starts for us at nickel which I doubt, it will be either a testament to his hard work or our poor secondary at this point. Because some guys have started over the years doesn't mean they should have or were all that good. It is more an indictment of our secondary which has rarely been in the top 10 in defense in our franchise history. Martin isn't good enough to start in a good secondary. If he starts expect a bunch of mistakes and blown coverages. I certainly hope he doesn't start. After all the Godfrey mistakes I am looking for a veteran to come in and play well this year.

Maybe it is just me but why would anyone start a rookie if they didn't have to. Seems to me rookies make mistakes which are part of the game. But I would rather have a veteran and groom the rookie instead of put him out there right away and learn by making plenty of mistakes.

I totally agree with you about rookies making mistakes and not starting a rookie if you don't have to but I think we may have to play a rookie at the nickel again this year. It falls to either Munnerlyn, Martin, or CJ Wilson. Everyone is entitled to their opinion but I personally don't know if Wilson is better than Munnerlyn. Anyway, my original point was, I thought that Martin, as a second round pick, should be able to contribute immediately as more than the 4th or 5th DB. I hope CJ wilson plays good enough to to lock down the nickel and keep both rookies on the bench.....If that happens - as a 2nd rounder, Martin should be #4 but I think Munnerlyn has out played him so far.

[bleys]

the world isn't black and white.. only opinions are.

hoping for a competitive team is totally different than having entirely unrealistic expectations.

[Proudiddy]

I'll be the first to say, Irvin looked much better tonight and had a lot more snaps to do so... I'm not getting why sticking him behind Hayden made sense to the coaching staff at all. He still obviously has a lot of work to do, but he looked a lot better.