Civil lawsuit against J. Winston

[mcdougal]

Playing devil's advocate here:

 

She claims the entire case was mishandled by the tallahassee police department and that they strong armed her into not pressing charges or going after Winston because it was a "football town"

 

She could have asked her friends to join her in order help get her out of the situation

 

Just because she stayed in the same class as the guy who raped her doesn't mean she wasn't. She could have needed the class in order to advance her degree and tried to power through it. 

 

So because she got raped she should have just left the school? That's just a terrible argument for her lying. She eventually left because she got so many death threats she felt unsafe. 

 

I can understand every argument you made accept for the last two. Those last two are irrelevant. 

 

1. That is not true. This is the same Tallahassee police department that was prosecuting Greg Dent, our All-Conference WR, for rape, at the same time they are supposedly covering up for Winston, an athlete that had, to date, not thrown a football, a pitch, ran for a first down, or had even been to a baseball or football practice for FSU.

 

Greg Dent was found not guilty in less than an hour by an all female jury. So TPD is prosecuting current football stars (based on flimsy evidence) while conducting massive coverups for a kid who hadn't even beaten out Jacob Coker for the starters job?

 

This case was properly handled. TPD took evidence and statements from Erica and her friends the night of the incident.

 

What happened was her version of events did not match the evidence, and the police officer, needing probably cause, did not believe her ever changing story. The only thing TPD should have done was to pull the video from Potbelly's on the night incident before the Bar erased it.

 

But of course, that would have just confirmed what everyone, INCLUDING HER OWN FRIENDS, that Erica willingly left with Winston and Co.

 

2. She was texting her friends, at the time she was in the cab with Winston for answers for an upcoming foreign language exam, and to see if they had seen her ID, because he wanted a student discount for the cab.

 

She NEVER texted her friends that she was in trouble or asked them to call 911. One would think if you are in danger you wouldn't be trying to find out where your ID is so you can get a cab discount or answers to an exam. Instead you would either call 911 or ask your friends to.

 

3. Well, that is a problematic according to her lawsuit against FSU. If she stayed in the same class as her "rapist" AFTER FSU requested that she leave the class, how in the world is she now suing FSU for creating "an hostile educational environment"?

 

FSU made arrangements for her to leave that class. She stayed. Willingly.

 

And her willingness to stay in the same class as the man who just "violently raped" you speak volumes of how "terrified" of Winston she was. You know, like her complaint against him alleges. 

 

4. See above. She is now claiming that Winston and FSU created this environment of hostility and intimidation. She COMPLETELY undercuts this theory by remaining a student for 11 months at the school after this supposed incident that "caused great emotional distress" and "sleepless" nights for her.

 

5. They are very relevant as it goes to once again her credibility when evaluating her specific claims against FSU and Winston.  

[rainwater]

why wait three years after the fact then after the incident happened? 

He didn't have money before now.  That doesn't change the truth which we don't know.  But there is little point in a large civil suit case against someone when they don't have high net worth.  That is no longer the case.

[Ricky Spanish]

1. That is not true. This is the same Tallahassee police department that was prosecuting Greg Dent, our All-Conference WR, for rape, at the same time they are supposedly covering up for Winston, an athlete that had, to date, not thrown a football, a pitch, ran for a first down, or had even been to a baseball or football practice for FSU.

 

Greg Dent was found not guilty in less than an hour by an all female jury. So TPD is prosecuting current football stars (based on flimsy evidence) while conducting massive coverups for a kid who hadn't even beaten out Jacob Coker for the starters job?

 

This case was properly handled. TPD took evidence and statements from Erica and her friends the night of the incident.

 

What happened was her version of events did not match the evidence, and the police officer, needing probably cause, did not believe her ever changing story. The only thing TPD should have done was to pull the video from Potbelly's on the night incident before the Bar erased it.

 

But of course, that would have just confirmed what everyone, INCLUDING HER OWN FRIENDS, that Erica willingly left with Winston and Co.

 

2. She was texting her friends, at the time she was in the cab with Winston for answers for an upcoming foreign language exam, and to see if they had seen her ID, because he wanted a student discount for the cab.

 

She NEVER texted her friends that she was in trouble or asked them to call 911. One would think if you are in danger you wouldn't be trying to find out where your ID is so you can get a cab discount or answers to an exam. Instead you would either call 911 or ask your friends to.

 

3. Well, that is a problematic according to her lawsuit against FSU. If she stayed in the same class as her "rapist" AFTER FSU requested that she leave the class, how in the world is she now suing FSU for creating "an hostile educational environment"?

 

FSU made arrangements for her to leave that class. She stayed. Willingly.

 

And her willingness to stay in the same class as the man who just "violently raped" you speak volumes of how "terrified" of Winston she was. You know, like her complaint against him alleges. 

 

4. See above. She is now claiming that Winston and FSU created this environment of hostility and intimidation. She COMPLETELY undercuts this theory by remaining a student for 11 months at the school after this supposed incident that "caused great emotional distress" and "sleepless" nights for her.

 

5. They are very relevant as it goes to once again her credibility when evaluating her specific claims against FSU and Winston.  

 

Great counterarguments man. I was just being the Devil's advocate. Do you have any links or sources for this stuff? I was going off of memory and conjecture. 

[cardiackat88.]

Im waiting for her and Nicole Holder's "twerkoff in Vegas" video to come out.

[Luke Cage]

Im waiting for her and Nicole Holder's "twerkoff in Vegas" video to come out.

 

I hope it never does, because some dumbass "dick for brains" athlete will jump right......actually yeah, I hope it comes out.  Every team should force prospects to view it and use it as a pre-draft barometer of "propensity to be entangled and destroyed by big butts/scheming women".

[mcdougal]

Great counterarguments man. I was just being the Devil's advocate. Do you have any links or sources for this stuff? I was going off of memory and conjecture. 

 

 

I appreciate it. I have only ever wanted someone to actually engage in the case and stop screaming generalities about "cover ups" and "Winston got away with rape."

 

Everywhere you turn in this case, Erica's story falls apart and is contradicted by the evidence...That is the reason 5 investigations and 2.5 years later and she still cannot get over the most minimum of standards of proof needed to hold Winston responsible for anything.

 

As to links:

 

Greg Dent: http://www.wctv.tv/home/headlines/FSUs-Gregory-Dent-Arrested-210782031.html

 

Winston investigation: http://espn.go.com/pdf/2013/1206/winston-inv1.pdf

 

Please pay close attention to page 12, and her friend Monique: ("XX" means Erica Kinsman)

 

"When they arrived at Pot Belly's they met with Marcus Jordan. Marcus was banded over 21 and would purchase the drinks for the girls. They would all share the drinks. At some point, XX and Monique walked to the bathroom. While on the way to the bathroom, a black male grabbed XX in the crowd and started talking to her. Monique said he did not grab her in an aggressive manner but pulled her over to him and started talking to her. Monique said XX continued to converse with this individual so she chose to go to the restroom. Monique told XX not to go anywhere and she would be right back. When she exited the restroom, Monique stated XX was still talking to the same black male. The black male then asked for XX' s phone number. XX looked at Monique as if she needed approval from her to give him her number. Monique said she told XX "I mean like if you want to." XX gave the black male her phone number, he put it in his phone, and she walked away with Monique. Monique advised there was a "weird little short guy" walking around following them all night. He was not intimidating them but continued to follow them around. Monique said she and XX continued to drink a little more but never got to a level where she felt they were intoxicated. She said XX did not seem drunk and said "we all seemed fine." At one point, XX showed Monique her phone and there was a text on it that said "meet me out front." Monique knew the number was not programmed in XX's phone because the number appeared in the display bar instead of a name that would be saved with it. XX looked at Monique and asked "should I go?" Monique replied "you can go" and "within a few seconds" XX was gone."

 

 

 

This once again matches Winston, Casher, Darby's version of events. I don't understand how one can be drunk, hit over the head, drugged, intimidated, or otherwise blacked out but yet ask your friend if it is okay to leave with Winston.

 

And BTW, Erica tried to erase all of this evidence off her phone and the TPD had to subpoena her phone records to record it...

[Frizzy350]

You're a dumbass. Seriously, have you put any effort to improve your clearly low intellect in your entire life?

Rape has nothing to do with how 'hot' girl is.

And only pathetic men who've been rejected their whole lives call females 'bitches'.

Sad.

 

Not entirely true.  There are plenty of women out there who are certainly "bitches".  Just as there are men who are assholes and douchebags.

[Carolina Cajun]

What is that even supposed to mean?

 

This is something that is common with psychology in crimes that are sexual in nature.  Put simply, it's based around dominance, they want to assert their power and the "attractiveness" of the victim has little to do with the reason for the crime.  When they "take" something that someone else doesn't want them to take, it gives them a feeling of being in control and many talk about not feeling like they have control in other aspects of their life.  Many of the victims are more likely to be at wrong place wrong time than actively pursued by the sex offender.  Basically, there is a lot of psychology associated with it that average people don't know or overlook.

 

I won't say that this is what happened in this case, but there's the reason "ugly people" get raped.

[TN05]

This is something that is common with psychology in crimes that are sexual in nature. Put simply, it's based around dominance, they want to assert their power and the "attractiveness" of the victim has little to do with the reason for the crime. When they "take" something that someone else doesn't want them to take, it gives them a feeling of being in control and many talk about not feeling like they have control in other aspects of their life. Many of the victims are more likely to be at wrong place wrong time than actively pursued by the sex offender. Basically, there is a lot of psychology associated with it that average people don't know or overlook.

I won't say that this is what happened in this case, but there's the reason "ugly people" get raped.

That makes sense in prisons. Not sure about outside.

[manu4t]

People on here are getting too caught up in guilt and innocence - this is a civil suit, which is about damages, ie, money, not guilt or innocence. Plenty of people found innocent in criminal proceedings have been socked with civil damages (OJ Simpson). The burden of proof is very different here, it is a preponderance of the evidence, meaning the plaintiff usually only has to prove their case by 51% or more of the credible evidence presented at trial (some states have different spins on this but this is generally the way it is done). In other words, it is much easier for her to make her case here than to be the accuser in a criminal suit, which is beyond a reasonable doubt standard, MUCH more difficult to prove. 95% of civil suits are settled, she and her attorney are banking on a settlement here rather than a long drawn out suit with depositions, etc. He has a lot of incentive to settle as well, publicity and taking time away from his season prep are big motivators to settle.

Not saying he is innocent, not saying he is guilty - just saying guilt and innocence dont matter in civil court.

[MadHatter]

What is that even supposed to mean?

 

The fact that you have to ask that says tons about you.

 

Go research rape a little......then come back to me and we can have a logical and informed discussion.

[TN05]

The fact that you have to ask that says tons about you.

 

Go research rape a little......then come back to me and we can have a logical and informed discussion.

What does it say - that I don't blindly accept things I hear on the internet? I'm trying to understand what you mean by 'power', and what it's implications are Carolina Cajun gave an explanation. That's good. You, on the other hand, berate me for... something. I'm not sure. Thoughtcrimes?

 

I have researched rape. Outside of feminist circles, the 'rape is not about sex' thing isn't universally accepted. 'Power' (whatever that means) can be a motive, but sex is also a motive. Rape can absolutely be about power, or sex, or both. It's not black-and-white like you argue. 

 

Psychology Today has a good article on this. It says the 'rape is about power' idea came not from science, but from a book by a feminist who asserted rape was ""a conscious process of intimidation by which all men keep all women in a state of fear". The book 'The Evolution of Human Sexuality', a scholarly work considered one of the best in its field, refuted it, placing rapists as generally being primarily poor, lower-class men who aren't appealing to date, and rape victims as generally being attractive women. Recent developments have demonstrated rape can be about 'power', but is not always or only about it.

[Carolina Cajun]

That makes sense in prisons. Not sure about outside.

 

Rape psychology does go on outside of prison.  Think of it like this, girl at the club might not be the most attractive girl there, but she makes it known that she wants nothing to do with him, the more exciting part of the rape for him is not sex with an attractive woman, it's about saying "I want to punish you for not liking me and forcing you to do something".  That's what gets a lot of these guys rocks off.  Again, I'm not saying that's what happened in this case, but this does occur with rapists.

[TN05]

Rape psychology does go on outside of prison.  Think of it like this, girl at the club might not be the most attractive girl there, but she makes it known that she wants nothing to do with him, the more exciting part of the rape for him is not sex with an attractive woman, it's about saying "I want to punish you for not liking me and forcing you to do something".  That's what gets a lot of these guys rocks off.  Again, I'm not saying that's what happened in this case, but this does occur with rapists.

 

I'm not saying that sort of thing doesn't happen... but that is not always the case. And if rape isn't about sex, then why have sex? Why not just beat her up and throw her in an alley? If rape isn't about sex, why is chemical castration and a punishment, and why is it effective?

 

Think about it this way... what is the motivation for mugging? Some people do it for the money, others do it because they like to hurt people, and some do it because they like both. Mugging is not always about money, and it isn't always about hurting people. It's far more complex than that.