USC WR Nelson Agholor has private visit with Panthers today

[LinvilleGorge]

It is value question.  Do you want the 6th best WR or the best corner?  Secondly Benjamin is a huge physical specimen.  I dont see that Ogholor is a physical specimen or that unique so there is no reason to pick him over someone else who would be a better value and close in ability.

 

It's just not that simple in terms of #6 WR vs. #1 CB.  For one, I don't think the #1 CB will be there at #25 anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.

 

Also, not all draft classes are created equal.  Some positions are stronger than others.  Once again, this looks like a pretty damn strong WR class.

 

I've already said that I don't necessarily see anything special about Agholor either and I wouldn't take him in the 1st round.  If he's still on the board when we're picking in the 2nd though, he becomes intriguing.

[WOW!!]

Two things. Gettleman often likes physical specimens like Benjamin. Agholor is not the big target we need for Cam given his tendency to throw high and inaccurately. Secondly there are certain schools that for whatever reason have talented players who don't make it in the NFL but 16 in a row?? Again I would surely hope that he is the one to break the string particularly if we pick him. As a Panther fan, who wouldnt. I just think he is like many guys who shoot up the draft boards and are reaches. Reminds me of a ECU running back who shot up the board and was a first round pick- Chris Johnson. A guy who flamed out and ultimately was a reach.

Just my opinion.

Cough ..

Chris Johnson has 6 1,000 yard season (1 being a 2,000) in 7 years. .

You might want to use a different example. .

[panthers55]

It's just not that simple in terms of #6 WR vs. #1 CB.  For one, I don't think the #1 CB will be there at #25 anyway, so it's kind of a moot point.

 

Also, not all draft classes are created equal.  Some positions are stronger than others.  Once again, this looks like a pretty damn strong WR class.

 

I've already said that I don't necessarily see anything special about Agholor either and I wouldn't take him in the 1st round.  If he's still on the board when we're picking in the 2nd though, he becomes intriguing.

Drafting is anything but simple and it is hard to say anything with certainty until things actually unfold. And the 6th best receiver versus number 1 corner was only for illustration not how I think it will go.  The wide receiver field is strong as much for the depth as for the number of guys at the top.  So there will be starters who can picked up through the first 3 rounds at receiver.  If for example Goldman and Ogholor are both there at 25 for me it is a no brainer.  One is a beast of a man who can be developed into the next Kris Jenkins for example while Ogholor offers little to distinguish himself from a physical or athletic choice.  If we are picking the 6th or 7 th best player at a position I would opt for Left tackle instead of receiver.  Harder to find and more expensive to pick up in free agency,

[LinvilleGorge]

Agholor

[top dawg]

It is value question. Do you want the 6th best WR or the best corner? Secondly Benjamin is a huge physical specimen. I dont see that Ogholor is a physical specimen or that unique so there is no reason to pick him over someone else who would be a better value and close in ability.

It depends on whether the CB or the WR is the better player. Just because someone is the best corner in a draft doesn't always equate them to being better than the 6th best receiver. And as far as this draft is concerned the best this or that will likely be gone, as is the case most of the time when you are picking so late.

As to nothing special about Agholor...well, that's an opinion. Agholor is definitely a superb route runner with good, natural hands and speed---speed that translates to the game, with at least average size, and who is a legitimate threat as a returner. He is as fluid and smooth as any receiver in the draft, save for maybe Coop. It's not like I have researched every prospect out there, but I have looked at the top 10-12 or so, and I don't believe that we are going to get that definite of a solid skill set after round 2, at least not someone that is as pro ready from day one. Hardy may be the only one, and he is just not as fast or explosive. It may take years for some of the others to put it all together, if they ever get there.

Agholor is arguably the safest receiver pick in the draft besides Cooper.

[panthers55]

Cough ..

Chris Johnson has 6 1,000 yard season (1 being a 2,000) in 7 years. .

You might want to use a different example. .

I would expect you to use quantity stats instead of quality stats.  Anyone knows that getting 1000 yards isnt hard if you get the ball 279 times like he did in 2013.  But his yards per carry was under 4 and he averaged 1 touchdown every 50 rushes.

 

He had 2 fantastic seasons and a third very good one.  But his probowl appearances and his production dropped off after that. Starting in 2011 he got a big head and decided that he was worth a bunch of money and signed the biggest contract for a running back at 4 years and 53.5 million.  Since he signed that contract his production dipped and he was not worth the spot he was drafted in or the money he was paid. If he had remained humble and played out his rookie contract I suspect he would have been more successful and certainly less entitled.  He just follows a long line of folks who are great until they get a megacontract and underperform after that.  

 

So no my example was a good one if you look at more than what it is on the surface and aren't linear in your thinking.

[panthers55]

It depends on whether the CB or the WR is the better player. Just because someone is the best corner in a draft doesn't always equate them to being better than the 6th best receiver. And as far as this draft is concerned the best this or that will likely be gone, as is the case most of the time when you are picking so late.

As to nothing special about Agholor...well, that's an opinion. Agholor is definitely a superb route runner with good, natural hands and speed---speed that translates to the game, with at least average size, and who is a legitimate threat as a returner. He is as fluid and smooth as any receiver in the draft, save for maybe Coop. It's not like I have researched even prospect out there, but I have looked at the top 10-12 or so, and I don't believe that we are going to get that definite of a solid skill set after round 2, at least not someone that is as pro ready from day one. Hardy may be the only one, and he is just not as fast or explosive. It may take years for some of the others to put it all together, if they ever get there.

Agholor is arguably the safest receiver pick in the draft besides Cooper.

Dont agree that Agholor is anything special particularly for us.  Safest pick?  LOL I would take Cooper, White, Parker and Perriman before I would take Agholor.  In fact I would consider Strong or DGB in the second before I would pick Agholor.   They at least have size and strength and are a better fit for a vertical ball control offense with a quarterback who is inconsistent.  Nelson will make a very good wide receiver in a WCO or Erhardt-Perkins offense which stretches the field horizontally where blocking is a luxury and not a necessity.  Honestly we have fast guys in Ginn and Brown and need a bookend for Benjamin given few teams have 2 corners over 6'1" ft tall.  It gives immediate match-up problems for any team. Another 6-2 or taller with a big catching radius is who we need IMHO.

 

If we are settling for a average size average strength guy with middling blocking skills there are plenty in the draft.

 

Gettleman likes guys with great physical skills who he can teach the fundamentals of the position. So someone like Coates or Funchess for example in the second or third offers a very high ceiling but are projects running routes and being a finished product.  Who is Funchess most compared to in some analyses?  Benjamin.....

 

I might also take Waller in the 5th where we have 3 picks.  Unless we think Stephen Hill might develop since Waller is the Stephen Hill of this draft.

[WOW!!]

I would expect you to use quantity stats instead of quality stats. Anyone knows that getting 1000 yards isnt hard if you get the ball 279 times like he did in 2013. But his yards per carry was under 4 and he averaged 1 touchdown every 50 rushes.

He had 2 fantastic seasons and a third very good one. But his probowl appearances and his production dropped off after that. Starting in 2011 he got a big head and decided that he was worth a bunch of money and signed the biggest contract for a running back at 4 years and 53.5 million. Since he signed that contract his production dipped and he was not worth the spot he was drafted in or the money he was paid. If he had remained humble and played out his rookie contract I suspect he would have been more successful and certainly less entitled. He just follows a long line of folks who are great until they get a megacontract and underperform after that.

So no my example was a good one if you look at more than what it is on the surface and aren't linear in your thinking.

You are so full of poo..

Every body knows a 1,000 yard season are the benchbenchmark for a RB'S season evaluation. ..

And to be truly honest I didn't even add his all purpose numbers.. Which will pretty much have him at 1,500 yards avg. Per season of production for his career. .

Also considering a RB avg. Career is 3-5 years of effectiveness. . He has 6 out of 7 years of production. .

So your example of him flaming out is completely inaccurate. .

Oh and just to further the point..

Deanglo with 2 more season of play doesn't have the total yards or TD that Chris Johnson has..

So was Deanglo a flame out as well??

[WOW!!]

Dont agree that Agholor is anything special particularly for us. Safest pick? LOL I would take Cooper, White, Parker and Perriman before I would take Agholor. In fact I would consider Strong or DGB in the second before I would pick Agholor. They at least have size and strength and are a better fit for a vertical ball control offense with a quarterback who is inconsistent. Nelson will make a very good wide receiver in a WCO or Erhardt-Perkins offense which stretches the field horizontally where blocking is a luxury and not a necessity. Honestly we have fast guys in Ginn and Brown and need a bookend for Benjamin given few teams have 2 corners over 6'1" ft tall. It gives immediate match-up problems for any team. Another 6-2 or taller with a big catching radius is who we need IMHO.

If we are settling for a average size average strength guy with middling blocking skills there are plenty in the draft.

Gettleman likes guys with great physical skills who he can teach the fundamentals of the position. So someone like Coates or Funchess for example in the second or third offers a very high ceiling but are projects running routes and being a finished product. Who is Funchess most compared to in some analyses? Benjamin.....

I might also take Waller in the 5th where we have 3 picks. Unless we think Stephen Hill might develop since Waller is the Stephen Hill of this draft.

So wait you love Hardy and think he's a special talent. . And Hardy is the total opposite of Perrimen and Dgb..

But Agholor who is almost a faster taller more versatile version of Hardy doesn't compare and is less than these guys??

[MV%doe]

He's first WR on tier three for me.

[panthers55]

You are so full of poo..

Every body knows a 1,000 yard season are the benchbenchmark for a RB'S season evaluation. ..

And to be truly honest I didn't even add his all purpose numbers.. Which will pretty much have him at 1,500 yards avg. Per season of production for his career. .

Also considering a RB avg. Career is 3-5 years of effectiveness. . He has 6 out of 7 years of production. .

So your example of him flaming out is completely inaccurate. .

I understand that you think that a 1000 yard season is a bench mark and it is to a casual fans or media which looks at the surface and don't look further.  But to knowlegeable fans and the experts, raw numbers mean nothing unless they are in context.  Plus the average length of time for a back stat includes guys who make the team as backups, or are on rookies contracts, not legitimate starters or first rounders.  

 

I am surprised you persist with such trite concrete thinking I would expect from a poster on ESPN, not someone here who claims some expertise. . 

[WOW!!]

I understand that you think thayt a 1000 yard season is a bench mark and it is to a casual fans or media which looks at the surface and don't look further. But to knowlegeable fans and the experts, raw numbers mean nothing unless they are in context. Plus the average length of time for a back stat includes guys who make the team as backups, or are on rookies contracts, not legitimate starters or first rounders.

I am surprised you persist with such trite concrete thinking I would expect from a poster on ESPN, not someone here who claims some expertise. .

You have got to be joking..

You are honestly sitting here saying a

3x pro bowler

1x All pro

Offensive player of the year winner..

Had a flamed out career?? Really !!

You have no credibility if you countine with this crap..

[panthers55]

So wait you love Hardy and think he's a special talent. . And Hardy is the total opposite of Perrimen and Dgb..

But Agholor who is almost a faster taller more versatile version of Hardy doesn't compare and is less than these guys??

My like for Hardy was as a value pick not who I think we will pick or my first choice particularly in the first or second.  And he would still fit us better than Agholor as Hardy is better going up for the ball, contesting catches and can adjust better to an inaccurate thrower which unfortunately is Cam's issue. Plus he is better blocking which is a necessity in our offense. So it isnt just the player but a fit for our offense. Agholor will be a great fit  for a WCO offense and is a finished product but isnt really best suited for our team at this point, IMO.

 

I would take a number of guys if I were Gettleman before Agholor including Perriman and Strong because they are bigger and more physical. I do worry about the hand though depending on where he broke the bone.  Rehab could take 6 months which we dont have.  Funchess is this year's Benjamin and I would take him over Agholor or Hardy in the second or third given his potential.  My only concern is whether we are better off taking a lower ceiling higher floor guy like Agholor or Hardy who could start right away and will be good but not dominant or we try and get a big physical specimen with a high ceiling who may not be ready to start day one or may be like Benjamin and be inconsistent his rookie year.  And I like DGBs potential but a questionable work ethic is a killer in a guy who needs plenty of polishing..

[WOW!!]

My like for Hardy was as a value pick not who I think we will pick or my first choice particularly in the first or second. And he would still fit us better than Agholor as Hardy is better going up for the ball, contesting catches and can adjust better to an inaccurate thrower which unfortunately is Cam's issue. Plus he is better blocking which is a necessity in our offense. So it isnt just the player but a fit for our offense. Agholor will be a great fit for a WCO offense and is a finished product but isnt really best suited for our team at this point, IMO.

I would take a number of guys if I were Gettleman before Agholor including Perriman and Strong because they are bigger and more physical. I do worry about the hand though depending on where he broke the bone. Rehab could take 6 months which we dont have. Funchess is this year's Benjamin and I would take him over Agholor or Hardy in the second or third given his potential. My only concern is whether we are better off taking a lower ceiling higher floor guy like Agholor or Hardy who could start right away and will be good but not dominant or we try and get a big physical specimen with a high ceiling who may not be ready to start day one or may be like Benjamin and be inconsistent his rookie year. And I like DGBs potential but a questionable work ethic is a killer in a guy who needs plenty of polishing..

Your opinion. .

Agholor deep speed ability to take a short pass to the house and pro ready ability to run all NFL routes.. Is a better fit for Cam...

Side note..

I didn't have to write 2 paragraphs explaining that..