Panthers top 5 draft targets

[Moorgan]

Can't be a media driven Myth when

1. Rb aren't getting paid like they use to.. While other position are making more money RB'S are making less..

2. More teams are finding production out of later round guys..

3. People are trading elite RB'S and letting them walk in FA's .. McCoy just got traded for a LB coming off a injury "straight up".. Back in the days a elite RB could get you a draft ( Walker).. Now one injuried LB can get you a elite RB? ?

4. Out of all the new rules to help offenses.. The only new rule to help defenses is against RB..

1. RBs are franchised less than WR that's true...a little less than 2M. So a level of devalue may be justified. In 2007 the RB and WR were roughly the same price to franchise tag. And so the amount teams pay has changed and you're not wrong to tie value to that.

2. Teams are finding production out of later rd guys at all positions. Brady v Manning. That anecdote doesn't bear on the discussion. Draft position is a different and fluid discussion in trying to predict the future. Don't conveniently forget all of the 1st rd WR busts over recent yrs.

3. I my opinion this is your weakest point where as the 1st was the strongest. That same player who got traded...got paid WR franchise money. So that does nothing but undermine your point. Making matters worse, the team that "let him walk" signed a RB for WR franchise money.

4. It's hard to say. The blocking rules (chockblock) etc help RBs indirectly. You could argue that a RB has a better chance of not receiving a catastrophic injury because they are rarely defenseless. Hence rules more geared to WR. Safety being the primary concern and not some nebulous focus on passing v running by the NFL.

[jumpman910]

Well we have Fozzy, Todman and Tolbert so I think we'll be fine if he misses a few games.

Let some other team draft Gurley.

Boy I sure feel confident with that bunch

[WOW!!]

1. RBs are franchised less than WR that's true...a little less than 2M. So a level of devalue may be justified. In 2007 the RB and WR were roughly the same price to franchise tag. And so the amount teams pay has changed and you're not wrong to tie value to that.

2. Teams are finding production out of later rd guys at all positions. Brady v Manning. That anecdote doesn't bear on the discussion. Draft position is a different and fluid discussion in trying to predict the future. Don't conveniently forget all of the 1st rd WR busts over recent yrs.

3. I my opinion this is your weakest point where as the 1st was the strongest. That same player who got traded...got paid WR franchise money. So that does nothing but undermine your point. Making matters worse, the team that "let him walk" signed a RB for WR franchise money.

4. It's hard to say. The blocking rules (chockblock) etc help RBs indirectly. You could argue that a RB has a better chance of not receiving a catastrophic injury because they are rarely defenseless. Hence rules more geared to WR. Safety being the primary concern and not some nebulous focus on passing v running by the NFL.

1. Thank you.. money value as well as draft value is decreasing. .

2. You name 1 situation really?? It doesn't compare. . Look at your list of the top rushers last year..

Forset

Foster

Morris

All later round picks..

This position is the easiest to transition to the NFL.. So making it easier to fill with lower level talent. .

3. This is the strongest point.. You have elite level players at one position going for unknown good talent at another.. How about this compare Mike Wallace (a 1 trick pony) or Deshean Jackson's contract compare to Murray, McCoy, and Lynch... Elite level RB making the same as non elite WR'S. . How about comparing Byron Maxwell (never been a full time starter or a shut-down CB) to the contracts of RB who got 1,000 yards and have been stars..

4.All the new rules are for safety and for scoring. . And the league thinks passing equals more scoring. .

[Moorgan]

1. Thank you.. money value as well as draft value is decreasing. .

2. You name 1 situation really?? It doesn't compare. . Look at your list of the top rushers last year..

Forset

Foster

Morris

All later round picks..

This position is the easiest to transition to the NFL.. So making it easier to fill with lower level talent. .

3. This is the strongest point.. You have elite level players at one position going for unknown good talent at another.. How about this compare Mike Wallace (a 1 trick pony) or Deshean Jackson's contract compare to Murray, McCoy, and Lynch... Elite level RB making the same as non elite WR'S. . How about comparing Byron Maxwell (never been a full time starter or a shut-down CB) to the contracts of RB who got 1,000 yards and have been stars..

4.All the new rules are for safety and for scoring. . And the league thinks passing equals more scoring. .

On #1 there is no argument. Its significance may be argued. But there is no argument.

On #2 looking at the list of top rushers is short sighted. Forset, Foster and Morris 5,6, and 11 respectively. What's your point? 1-4 Murray, Bell, McCoy and Lynch were the top 4 rushers of the league. All 4 of those teams made the playoffs. Of Forset, Foster and Morris only one (the number 5) made the playoffs. That seems counterintuitive. Why did you pick them? Because they were late rd draft picks? The top guys I just mentioned were higher rd and one thing they have in common...playoffs. The later rd guys were on teams that were bad. Can value be made at later rds for good teams? Christ if that's your argument make it wo me looking up stats to give words to your argument for you. But the argument is weak bc you're selecting. The top 4 rushers all made the playoffs. 1 out of your 3 hit or misses made the playoffs. The top 4 rushers are all top draft picks (rd 3 at worst and rd 2 or rd 1). So don't tell me that it's one situation. You didn't even address that. Your devaluation of the RB is based on hype and money. Just stop pretending it's more than that.

I hate being made to do research on my phone.

Finally, your ability to tell me what the league is thinking is just as valuable as my own. None. However what is obvious is that defenseless players are being protected for good reason. Now might those players more than likely be WR? Yes. So safety rules, while favoring a position do not correlate to the league valuing passing more than running.

Outliers notwithstanding running trumps passing in this league still. Hence your willful ignorance of what chip kelly did. You use the Eagles as an example on way but ignore what they did elsewhere.

The argument does not stand. I've watched my show. I'm going to bed.

[GoobyPls]

Boy I sure feel confident with that bunch

 

You should be, rather than waste if 1st round pick on a injury prone RB or any RB in the first round for what its worth.

[WOW!!]

On #1 there is no argumroundent. Its significance may be argued. But there is no argument.

On #2 looking at the list of top rushers is short sighted. Forset, Foster and Morris 5,6, and 11 respectively. What's your point? 1-4 Murray, Bell, McCoy and Lynch were the top 4 rushers of the league. All 4 of those teams made the playoffs. Of Forset, Foster and Morris only one (the number 5) made the playoffs. That seems counterintuitive. Why did you pick them? Because they were late rd draft picks? The top guys I just mentioned were higher rd and one thing they have in common...playoffs. The later rd guys were on teams that were bad. Can value be made at later rds for good teams? Christ if that's your argument make it wo me looking up stats to give words to your argument for you. But the argument is weak bc you're selecting. The top 4 rushers all made the playoffs. 1 out of your 3 hit or misses made the playoffs. The top 4 rushers are all top draft picks (rd 3 at worst and rd 2 or rd 1). So don't tell me that it's one situation. You didn't even address that. Your devaluation of the RB is based on hype and money. Just stop pretending it's more than that.

I hate being made to do research on my phone.

Finally, your ability to tell me what the league is thinking is just as valuable as my own. None. However what is obvious is that defenseless players are being protected for good reason. Now might those players more than likely be WR? Yes. So safety rules, while favoring a position do not correlate to the league valuing passing more than running.

Outliers notwithstanding running trumps passing in this league still. Hence your willful ignorance of what chip kelly did. You use the Eagles as an example on way but ignore what they did elsewhere.

The argument does not stand. I've watched my show. I'm going to bed.

This is why you're wrong..

1st top 10 rushers last year only Lynch was a 1st rounder

With Foster and Forset there are more undrafted Runing backs in the top 10 then 1st rounders. 2nd and 3rd rounder make up the top rushers so that is the sweet spot to get a running back..

You brought up Brady so lets look at the top passer list..

Bree's and Brady are the only 2 non 1st round QB'S on the list.. Which means you almost never find a top QB later in the draft..

So no it's not like RB where there are 5 RB'S taken after the 1st 2 rounds leading the league in rushing. .

[CPantherKing]

The Panthers have their eye on Odighizuwa DE.

 

And do not be surprised if the Panthers draft Dezmin Lewis in later rounds to fill out the WR position.

[Woodie]

I'm not into drafting RB in the 1st round anymore because the position is devalued. . I also don't like the fact you're drafting a RB in the 1st round to be in a commitee. . Are you getting value out of him in his rookie deal when he is in a commitee backfield. . Then it's time to sign him to a new deal and the 3-4 year shelf life kicks in.. I just don't see the value in a 1st round RB anymore. .

 

I think this is a common mistake many fans here are making.  Yes, the RB position has generally been devalued in the league, but not by the Panthers.  They still want to be a run oriented team (think of they way the Seahawks use Lynch).  The problem has been that our RB's have either been injured or have lost a few steps, so the production hasn't looked very good outside of Cam.  But that didn't stop them from trying time and time again to get a running game going.  IMO, I think if Gurley is there, he is without a doubt the pick...no matter who else is available.  He perfectly fits what we want to do on offense (size, speed, power, vision combo), and without the injury, would be a guy that we could only fantasize about, but have no chance to land.  And all indications are that he will be fine this year, but exceptional next season. 

 

I think ideally, they want to move on from Stewart after this year, but without having his replacement waiting in the wings, would be hesitant.  And to be honest, I don't know that they truly want to run a RB by committee that many think.  They inherited a RBBC that they couldn't afford to break up from the last regime, but I get the feeling they would like a true bell cow back.  Now, I also believe they want to keep other backs involved, but I think they do want a true lead back.

[Woodie]

Ogbeuhi was falling to the late 1st in projections before his injury because he had struggled quite a bit after transitioning to LT from RT this year. 2nd round is a much more reasonable projection for him.

 

And the word I kept hearing about him is soft.  One college analyst (not a draft guy, but one of the gametime analysts) went so far as to say that he hasn't ever seen someone with so much natural talent play so soft.  That's not what you want to hear about your potential LT of the future.

 

[WOW!!]

I think this is a common mistake many fans here are making. Yes, the RB position has generally been devalued in the league, but not by the Panthers. They still want to be a run oriented team (think of they way the Seahawks use Lynch). The problem has been that our RB's have either been injured or have lost a few steps, so the production hasn't looked very good outside of Cam. But that didn't stop them from trying time and time again to get a running game going. IMO, I think if Gurley is there, he is without a doubt the pick...no matter who else is available. He perfectly fits what we want to do on offense (size, speed, power, vision combo), and without the injury, would be a guy that we could only fantasize about, but have no chance to land. And all indications are that he will be fine this year, but exceptional next season.

I think ideally, they want to move on from Stewart after this year, but without having his replacement waiting in the wings, would be hesitant. And to be honest, I don't know that they truly want to run a RB by committee that many think. They inherited a RBBC that they couldn't afford to break up from the last regime, but I get the feeling they would like a true bell cow back. Now, I also believe they want to keep other backs involved, but I think they do want a true lead back.

No matter who the RB is this coaching staff will run a RB by committee situation. . A 1st round RB is a wasted pick because our rushing game wasn't a major problem. . Our problem was team weren't afraid of our passing game.. It won't matter what we have in the backfield if teams will load up the box double team Olsen and Benji and laugh at the other WR's we put on the field. . All the commentators, analysts, and beat writer are saying the same thing. . Our lack of explosives weapons in the passing game is holding this team back..

[davos]

So...kinda back to the beginning but this is saying many whispers are saying a few names:

 

Todd Gurley

Landon Collins

Andrus Peat

Jaelen Strong

Cedric Ogbuehi

 

What I find curious is:

 

(1) The higher rated talented they love that could somehow fall they look at above this group

(2) If they like Gurley, what do they think of Gordon? 

 

Side note: If I had to guess from this list, my gut tells me Peat/Strong/Collins but there are some others I've still got a feeling about. 

 

[Woodie]

No matter who the RB is this coaching staff will run a RB by committee situation. . A 1st round RB is a wasted pick because our rushing game wasn't a major problem. . Our problem was team weren't afraid of our passing game.. It won't matter what we have in the backfield if teams will load up the box double team Olsen and Benji and laugh at the other WR's we put on the field. . All the commentators, analysts, and beat writer are saying the same thing. . Our lack of explosives weapons in the passing game is holding this team back..

 

I'm not going to try and convince you since I see that you have been having an ongoing discussion with other posters and there's really not much to add.  However, I will say that this staff has never said they want to run a RBBC.  They have talked about having other backs involved, but that's a far cry from a RBBC.  And we can't really go by what they have done in the past since Rivera pretty much had no choice but to try and make it work with D-Will and Stewart due to their contracts and locker room presence.

 

I do agree that we need explosive playmakers on offense, particularly at WR.  However, if Gurley is what the draft experts claim he will be, and if Gettleman and Co. also think that's what he'll be, then he will be a clear difference maker on this team and the kind of player that strikes fear into defenses...the kind of player that you rarely land this late in the first.  With that said, if we do take Gurley in the first, I'm sure they'll still try to get an explosive #2 for Cam, so I do not think for a minute they'll ignore the passing game. 

 

With that said, if Gurley's gone at 25, I fully expect 57 to be a RB (maybe even with a trade up if there is a guy they like significantly more than the others).  No matter how you slice it, I think they want to move on from Stewart with his contract and injury history after this year.  So I don't see RB as a late draft pick like it has been the first couple of Gettleman drafts, it will be taken early, IMO.   

[cbarrier90]

My point is that RB is not necessarily a "devalued position". The elite guys are still getting PAID and are highly valued. Just because there hasn't been a RB taken in the 1st round in the past two drafts doesn't mean the position as a whole is necessarily devalued. It's just a reflection of how those RB classes were evaluated in the draft process. The top FAs continue to be highly valued and highly paid and that says that the NFL still valued elite RBs.

Fans are looking at our RB situation as the poster child for what not to do without realizing that was in large part just a ton mismanagement..

A contract to one of DeAngelo and Stewart doesn't hurt. It's both of those contracts AND the contract to Tolbert on top of that that is crippling.

"Devaluing" is the buzzword in this thread but what the Panthers did is vastly "overvalue" the running game they had to the point where they got little production without any money to help out the other areas of the team.

I highly doubt you'd see the same mismanagement with a game changer like Gurley on the roster, and the longer the wait for the draft, the more that pick makes sense.

[Moorgan]

This is why you're wrong..

1st top 10 rushers last year only Lynch was a 1st rounder

With Foster and Forset there are more undrafted Runing backs in the top 10 then 1st rounders. 2nd and 3rd rounder make up the top rushers so that is the sweet spot to get a running back..

You brought up Brady so lets look at the top passer list..

Bree's and Brady are the only 2 non 1st round QB'S on the list.. Which means you almost never find a top QB later in the draft..

So no it's not like RB where there are 5 RB'S taken after the 1st 2 rounds leading the league in rushing. .

I agree. But I don't think that makes me wrong. If the 2nd and 3rd rds are the sweet spot (which I agree with) then taking a phenomenal RB at #25 is no stretch or reach. Now the injury is of course a concern but that media driven drivel about no RB in the first is just that.

Bottom line is RBs aren't devalued and picking Gurley at #25 isn't a stretch (minus the injury question).

And yes QBs are most valuable. We agree there too.