Current Panthers Receiver Depth Chart

[MV%doe]

Top dawg, I'll list some questions below in regards to my reasoning Corey brown.

First off he's a UDFA and made a NFL roster for the full year. You listed a few WRs in your post- moncrief, adams, landry, and robinson. Thats mainly 2nd rounders form what's looking like the best WR class in drafts history. To make a even playing field, please list the other UDFAs or even 6/7 rounders to compare to CB. Also the players you listed are in a VERY friendly passing offences, list #3/4 WR form controlling/running teams example 49ers, seafags etc. Plus landry demoted hartline later in the season, in the end he was basically the #1 with wallance giving up. Robinson got plenty of snaps with 1s cause of WRs injuries...... remember it got so bad for the jags they signed T.king off the panther PS.

The 13 games active, the first few compared to last five is a BIG difference. Remember the youth movement when RR finally made change(boston, norman, full time turner etc) well giving CB more snaps was part of that too. Just like ealy, brown got better as the season went on. His YAC, I will agree that's something that needs improvement. He had a bad habit of getting open, making a catch, then stepping out of bounds. But just like every other NFLer, he was dealing with injuries (shoulder and concussion issues). So I get why he was avoiding contact, its not worth another concussion or reinjuring shoulder for 3 regular season yards after a first down gain.

I'm petty sure you watch panther games and I respect your opinion. I hope the comments give you something else to think about when CB is brought up. I'm not stating he's some #1/2 in the making or anything, he's better than fodder or cut bait tho. My issue with CB was his ST.......... all the fans hate on bersin for his punt returning, but I blame CB for it. I don't know what caused him to become a WR only player, injuries? Too much workload being a full time WR&PR( hear this is a big reason). That said if he doesn't make the team, that means dave signed a couple FA names and used some early draft picks on WRs. I'm all for keeping the best players and currently view corey brown as one.

[MV%doe]

We have gotten used to mediocrity since the glory days of Smith, Moose and Proehl. Wake up, Huddle! Snap out if it! It's OK to raise your expectations, even amid a downgraded version of Foxball. I mean that Ritz must taste mighty good to someone who has been relegated to eating bread and water behind bars somewhere in an ISIL prison, but it is still a damned cracker.

I try my best to be a realist. I know its VERY very very hard to win a nfl game. Its impossible for all 32 teams to win each week. What the pats and even the colts have done the last 15 years is abnormal. If I even hear as colt fan complain about anything, I'm punching them straight in the face. Having peyton & luck back-2-back is luckest move in the history of nfl.

I want to go 19-0 and win by 50 each game too, but that's not happen in this dimension. I want 6 all pro WRs, but that's not happening either bruh. Last year I wanted at least two WRs drafted, but you need to spread the love. Id go matt millen in the draft and get 5 WRs, then the other spots would fail.

Panthers are a 8-8 team, but the future looks bright my friend.......... make sure you have a nice pair of shades, hell you may need a welding mask!!

[L-TownCat]

After your love affair with guys like David Gettis, and Denarius Moore, is it really fair for you to poo all over CB in this thread? I mean I'm not guaranteeing that he will be on the roster, he's got to bulk up some, but I think he has a legitimate shot at contributing here.

Not to mention he's only been in the league one season.

If he gets hurt again maybe things change, but I wouldn't write him off yet. It's still March...

Lol, the difference is Philly has actually produced. Can't be a huddle WR Gawd if they actually play.

Do you even huddle bro?

[top dawg]

Top dawg, I'll list some questions below in regards to my reasoning Corey brown.

First off he's a UDFA and made a NFL roster for the full year. You listed a few WRs in your post- moncrief, adams, landry, and robinson. Thats mainly 2nd rounders form what's looking like the best WR class in drafts history. To make a even playing field, please list the other UDFAs or even 6/7 rounders to compare to CB. Also the players you listed are in a VERY friendly passing offences, list #3/4 WR form controlling/running teams example 49ers, seafags etc. Plus landry demoted hartline later in the season, in the end he was basically the #1 with wallance giving up. Robinson got plenty of snaps with 1s cause of WRs injuries...... remember it got so bad for the jags they signed T.king off the panther PS.

The 13 games active, the first few compared to last five is a BIG difference. Remember the youth movement when RR finally made change(boston, norman, full time turner etc) well giving CB more snaps was part of that too. Just like ealy, brown got better as the season went on. His YAC, I will agree that's something that needs improvement. He had a bad habit of getting open, making a catch, then stepping out of bounds. But just like every other NFLer, he was dealing with injuries (shoulder and concussion issues). So I get why he was avoiding contact, its not worth another concussion or reinjuring shoulder for 3 regular season yards after a first down gain.

I'm petty sure you watch panther games and I respect your opinion. I hope the comments give you something else to think about when CB is brought up. I'm not stating he's some #1/2 in the making or anything, he's better than fodder or cut bait tho. My issue with CB was his ST.......... all the fans hate on bersin for his punt returning, but I blame CB for it. I don't know what caused him to become a WR only player, injuries? Too much workload being a full time WR&PR( hear this is a big reason). That said if he doesn't make the team, that means dave signed a couple FA names and used some early draft picks on WRs. I'm all for keeping the best players and currently view corey brown as one.

It's fine for you or others to view Corey Brown as one of our best receivers that we have. I understand itt from an emotional standpoint, I just don't agree with it because I know we can do better for all the reasons I stated. I am really getting tired of harping on it because I have put it all out there.

Some may think it's unfair of me to compare him to the best of his peers, but it's because I believe we need to raise our standards for receivers that could realistically see the field for an appreciable amount of time. For me, trying to compare UDFAs and late rounders is ludicrous unless they just so happen to be on the same team vying for the same spot, with some type of playing time or stats to judge (kind of like the case with both Browns, Boykin and Hill).

One of the real issues here with me is that Gettleman has said on numerous occasions that he believes in competition because this gives the team an opportunity to upgrade positions. But instead of just accepting the man at his word fully, some people want to discount or downplay the contestants to their detriment because these fans are more fans of players than the team. For me it's not about a popularity contest.

If this is what we are going to have to deal with as far as our receiving corps, then I am for the best players also. But just like there is Brown, there is Boykin, Mike Brown, Hill, and maybe even Bersin who have had an appreciable amount of playing time as pros, who have made just enough noise to not be discounted as just camp bodies. There are also a couple of others who are chomping at the bit to prove their worth---their growth and development like Lucas. No one should be taken for granted to be our WR3.

[WOW!!]

It is easy for a lot of fans to point at certain players to explain deficiencies with their particular team. It use to be LaFell, now it's Cotchery.

Here are the yardage totals for the third leading receiving options for the 6 NFC playoff teams according to espn.com.

580 - Cotchery

621

446

322

367

696

I'm not saying we shouldn't look for upgrades. I will take an upgrade at any position, but these numbers might illustrate what Magnus is referring to as opportunity cost.

Testament to Cam for whatever yards he got. Because he truly wasn't getting open or separation. . He also was lazy on routes and had drops..

[WOW!!]

They're using Cotchery as if he were a slot player, for the most part. They're not doing this spread out, outside to inside symmetrical thing like most teams using a slot. This 1x3 or 2x2 bunch formation stuff they're using so often is able to produce a lot with players like this. Cotchery wasn't holding this team back and I don't really believe he's being misused.

They can get better and have one magical player you guys can call #2. That's fine. Whoever that player is, will be the third best receiver, and will still be in a run-first offense. In the end, the opportunity cost for that player is almost tough to justify. I don't find it to be this massive hole so many of you do.

So the flea flicker plays and go routes they called this season for Cotchery slow ass didn't happen? ?

[magnus]

The using of Cotchery as a slot guy thing is a stretch. But let's say that I agree with you for argument's sake, have you considered that the only reason that we have not opened up the offense is because we don't have another legitimate threat at WR that will take it to the house on any given play?

 

Furthermore, I don't see how you can say with any surety that the next receiver that we more than likely draft, pick up or whatever will only be the third best receiver.  You don't know that.

 

Lastly, Olsen is not a receiver. The most effective way to use him is when there is another legitimate threat on the field, as that receiver can draw attention away from Olsen (and possibly even KB), and allow him to put in work underneath. 

 

There is a massive whole, and there has been a massive hole since Moose left for Chicago.

Olsen was split out (wide or slot) 50% of the time in '13.  I don't remember what he was for '14.   He's not a WR, but he's quite possibly the best player catching the football Carolina has.  A 1000 yard TE isn't some third or fourth option on a team like this.  I don't think we're going to agree that the WR's role is always to work deep and Olsen's is to always work short (or even half the time).

 

And yes, I'm saying the O isn't going to open up.   Rivera said, 10 catches from WR (2014 provided 11, for what it's worth).   He's going to play ball control, he's going to play defense.   Has done it since mid-2012 (so this is not a Shula "issue" in my mind) when the D started playing well. 

 

Now, I don't know that this mythical WR Carolina would pick up would only be the third best WR.  I have no crystal ball.  But, Olsen and Benjamin are tremendous.   Any third player in there doesn't have to be exceptional.  Any third player in there has to do everything Cotchery does, and most likely do it better than he does.   On that, absolutely I'm counting Olsen.  That's a thing that this "oh look we're going to leave the #2 job open because no one is worthy" BS from the OP neglects.  

[TheRed]

CB will get his chance, just like JB.  It would seem like all you Charlettonians would be more excited about a hometown product. Boy, you pump up the little guy, but poo on hometown products who would arguably fit into our offense much better and are larger receivers who some of you swore that Cam needed this time last year. A few years ago, there was some excitement about that hometown kid (whose name I just can't remember) who was trying to make the squad and made a couple of plays during preseason.  These days, you just talk down about guys before they can even get on the damned team and compete. 

 

Seems to me that some of you should take the emotion out of it---because it's not like any of the guys have been here long enough, or contributed in any appreciable way to have earned such loyalty---and concern yourselves with what's going to make the team better.  I have provided valid reasons as to why I believe what I believe regarding CB, but from his supporters all I hear is he is a fan favorite that has some potential.  All I am saying is that he is going to have to compete for my loyalty, just like the other receivers on the team (including on the practice squad), and looking at what I've seen I wouldn't bet the house on him to make the squad, much less be our WR3.  At this point, he is no better than Boykin, Hill, Mucas or any of them as far as I'm concerned, but if he takes a spot and kicks them to the curb I will accept it, just like I did last season.

 

You didn't hear me say too much about Brown during the season when he was screwing up the main job that he had. This is the offseason---the time for evaluation and upgrades---so Brown is fair game, and his stats and overall game are suspect when it comes to some of his peers.  He arguably is expendable now that we've signed Ginn, and don't let us draft someone like Ty Montgomery, Phillip Dorsett or Tre McBride...

 

Didn't you admit in another thread that you've been talking poo about Ginn because he wasn't Denarius Moore?

 

That doesn't seem to be a smidge hypocritical to you now that you are telling others to "take the emotion out of it", and blasting them for supposedly shitting on other guys?

[magnus]

It is easy for a lot of fans to point at certain players to explain deficiencies with their particular team. It use to be LaFell, now it's Cotchery.

Here are the yardage totals for the third leading receiving options for the 6 NFC playoff teams according to espn.com.

580 - Cotchery

621

446

322

367

696

I'm not saying we shouldn't look for upgrades. I will take an upgrade at any position, but these numbers might illustrate what Magnus is referring to as opportunity cost.

this exactly. 

And, since that's the third WR it's worth noting the 4th guy rarely provides any real receiving value unless something catastrophic happens.  

[TheRed]

While at times we were using Cotchery in absurd situations, he dropped a lot of passes, and only caught 1 touchdown all year.

 

He wasn't brought in to be a #3 or a #4. He was supposed to compliment KB, and instead he often disappeared.

 

I expected more from him after we signed him. I can only hope that gaining continuity with Cam this offseason will help.

 

But if he is just going to quit on routes and drop game winning touchdown passes, well, I don't think much of that will matter.

[top dawg]

Didn't you admit in another thread that you've been talking poo about Ginn because he wasn't Denarius Moore?

 

That doesn't seem to be a smidge hypocritical to you now that you are telling others to "take the emotion out of it", and blasting them for supposedly shitting on other guys?

 

Well, it's not like I don't believe that Denarius Moore is a greater receiver than Ginn, and his stats arguably prove this point. So, not, it's not hypocritical.  You think that I am crying over Moore? That's laughable. 

 

The main reason that we went hard at Ginn is because Brown could not get the job done as a returner. Ginn historically has been one of the better ones in the league, so it just made sense from that standpoint, as well as a versatility standpoint. Now as a WR3 standpoint, I scoff at anyone who thinks Ginn is a better receiver than Moore or most of the others that were in free agency.  

[magnus]

So the flea flicker plays and go routes they called this season for Cotchery slow ass didn't happen? ?

 

They happened.  Does that negate what I said?  No.  Of course, a WR's role isn't only to run the 9 route and speed isn't the only way to get open.

[TheRed]

Well, it's not like I don't believe that Denarius Moore is a greater receiver than Ginn, and his stats arguably prove this point. So, not, it's not hypocritical.  You think that I am crying over Moore? That's laughable. 

 

The main reason that we went hard at Ginn is because Brown could not get the job done at punt returner. Ginn historically has been one of the better ones in the league, so it just made sense from that standpoint, as well as a versatility standpoint. Now as a WR3 standpoint, I scoff at anyone who thinks Ginn is a better receiver than Moore or most of the others that were in free agency.  

 

I don't know who is better at WR, Moore has obviously never played here before. He put up some numbers in Oakland, we know this.

 

As far as Ginn, I think most here realize that he can have an impact at WR, but nobody is penciling him in and putting a check next to WR like we are done. We need more on offense. I don't really care about fan favorites or any of that. If you got a hard on for Denarius. Great. If he comes here I will support him like any other Panther.

 

If Brown or Boykin don't work out, so be it. But I'm tired of shuffling through WR's over and over and over while our offense suffers. I'll just hope for the best.

 

At this point I think Gettleman is eyeing the draft for receiving help.

 

There are a lot of guys in FA getting overpaid. The awful contracts like the one KC gave to Dwayne Bowe a few years back haven't really helped. Like I said in an earlier post, we need a #2. Arguing over #3 and #4 is rather pointless. We've got enough of those, and if we need more then they aren't all that hard to find.

[top dawg]

Olsen was split out (wide or slot) 50% of the time in '13.  I don't remember what he was for '14.   He's not a WR, but he's quite possibly the best player catching the football Carolina has.  A 1000 yard TE isn't some third or fourth option on a team like this.  I don't think we're going to agree that the WR's role is always to work deep and Olsen's is to always work short (or even half the time).

 

And yes, I'm saying the O isn't going to open up.   Rivera said, 10 catches from WR (2014 provided 11, for what it's worth).   He's going to play ball control, he's going to play defense.   Has done it since mid-2012 (so this is not a Shula "issue" in my mind) when the D started playing well. 

 

Now, I don't know that this mythical WR Carolina would pick up would only be the third best WR.  I have no crystal ball.  But, Olsen and Benjamin are tremendous.   Any third player in there doesn't have to be exceptional.  Any third player in there has to do everything Cotchery does, and most likely do it better than he does.   On that, absolutely I'm counting Olsen.  That's a thing that this "oh look we're going to leave the #2 job open because no one is worthy" BS from the OP neglects.  

 

I am not questioning your football knowledge in regards to seeing what you see on the field from a more technical standpoint. I am very aware that Olsen and Benjamin are great options, particularly Olsen.That's not an issue. But I also believe that their skills can be used more effectively with another playmaker in the mix, however little that we pass, run, split Olsen out or whatever.  Another playmaker---a legitimate threat---at wide receiver on the field at the same time with Olsen and Benjamin just makes sense.

 

Late in the season, the flaw of trying to rely on Greg Olsen as a secondary or primary receiver was put on display.  He was effectively schemed out of the game. Even in our last game (which was way better than his first game against the Hawks), Olsen was largely ineffective until what some people may even refer to as garbage time because it was pretty easy for the Seahawks to take him out of the game. I don't see how anyone that was watching could see it any differently.  This "mythical" receiver that you refer to may not be as productive as either Benjamin or Olsen, but is still necessary (in my opinion) to get us over the hump when we meet teams with top echelon defenses and better offenses. This WR2 (which is not a term just used in Madden) would in theory be able to take some pressure away underneath which would probably help Olsen the most.  Cotchery nor any other receiver that we have does not put enough fear in the opposition to consistently open things up for Olsen and Benjamin. So although this WR2 may not be the better on paper from a reception or yards perspective than our top two options, in the real world his effect would be just as important.

 

As for Rivera, Shula or whoever not being willing to open up the offense even if we have the tools to do so---particularly when we must do so when meeting a higher and more complete level of competition---they will not be around to do this too many times before they are ultimately put on ice.