same as last year, Rivera says Cam has got to become a more sound QB

[top dawg]

It may surprise some if you that through the 2014 season, Cam ranks 24th on the list for career passer rating. This with arguably suspect protection and receivers. So give the guy a break, and let's wait for a more optimum environment before we throw him under the bus.

BTW, Tannehill is number 31 on that list.

[top dawg]

Kid brought a cap gun to the fight, but he didn't realize that I had a 12 gauge.

[TonyN]

I am fully aware that our defense played great football for the last four games. That's not even debatable.

But, did he improve or not? For shits and giggles, since you're so into numbers and extrapolation, how did our receiving corps do during that four game stretch, and extrapolate that through a full season.

And were you a Jake Delhomme fan by chance? Were you able to watch Elway, Marino, or Favre? Did you see Flacco and Eli Manning win the Super Bowl? You ever heard of Staubach, Unitas or Jurgensen? Well, that 87.4 percent passer rating in those last four games was higher than the career passer rating for all of them.

And the passer rating, besides winning of course, is arguably the most important stat of them all.

 

I am fully aware of the changes in the NFL game which have essentially made statistical comparisons of quarterbacks who played even 6 or 7 years ago completely irrelevant to those of today's players. Ironically those same stats are what Camophiles hide behind in order to "prove" Newton's worth relative to the all time greats.. 

 

When Roger Staubach retired in 1979, his career passer rating of 83.4 was the best of all time. 

 

An 83.4 last season would have placed Staubach between Andy Dalton and Cam Newton at 27th in the NFL.

 

Here is the reality: the statistics of today's players can only be accurately gauged by comparisons with their contemporaries. Newton's numbers of 2011 mean nothing in comparison with Marino's numbers from 1983 or even Manning's numbers from 1998. Get out a little. Look at Newton's numbers in comparison with Dalton. With Wilson. With Kaepernick. With Tannehill. With Luck. It's early yet, but look at Bridgewater...

 

A strange thing starts to emerge: Cam Newton's career numbers are not that good. In fact, they are pedestrian in comparison with those of his contemporaries. Statistically, Cam Newton is a slightly less accurate Andy Dalton with better mobility.

[TonyN]

Since you seem stifled, read this brief article. There are many more like it. http://espn.go.com/nfl/story/_/page/hotread141217/nfl-statistics-quarterbacks-devalued-era-favoring-offenses

 

Did you know that of the top 50 completion percentage seasons of all -time, fully 37 of them have come in the 2000's?

 

Golly, I had no idea Chad Pennington was better than Joe Namath !!!

[WhoAmI?]

TBH, I'm tired of this comparing sh*t. At the end of the day, Cam has to get better in a lot of aspects, Shula has to stop going full retard in games, Rivera has to coach better, Gettleman has to continue providing weapons, and Richardson needs to stop putting the shield before our team so we can win a motherfuggin superb owl already.

[TonyN]

Kid brought a cap gun to the fight, but he didn't realize that I had a 12 gauge.

 

Sorry, dude. I have been waiting 30 minutes for you to pull my cap gun out of your ass. I guess it must be stuck somewhere up there. Later.

[top dawg]

I am fully aware of the changes in the NFL game which have essentially made statistical comparisons of quarterbacks who played even 6 or 7 years ago completely irrelevant to those of today's players. Ironically those same stats are what Camophiles hide behind in order to "prove" Newton's worth relative to the all time greats.. 

 

When Roger Staubach retired in 1979, his career passer rating of 83.4 was the best of all time. 

 

An 83.4 last season would have placed Staubach between Andy Dalton and Cam Newton at 27th in the NFL.

 

Here is the reality: the statistics of today's players can only be accurately gauged by comparisons with their contemporaries. Newton's numbers of 2011 mean nothing in comparison with Marino's numbers from 1983 or even Manning's numbers from 1998. Get out a little. Look at Newton's numbers in comparison with Dalton. With Wilson. With Kaepernick. With Tannehill. With Luck. It's early yet, but look at Bridgewater...

 

A strange thing starts to emerge: Cam Newton's career numbers are not that good. In fact, they are pedestrian in comparison with those of his contemporaries. Statistically, Cam Newton is a slightly less accurate Andy Dalton with better mobility.

 

Ok, so you want to play the peer game.

 

Here are your rankings (the first three are tops of all time):

 

Aaron Rodgers        106.0

Tony Romo              97.6

Peyton Manning       97.5

Tom Brady               95.9

Philip Rivers             95.7

Drew Brees             95.4

Ben Roethlisberger   95.9

Matt Ryan                91.1

Matt Schaub            89.9

Andrew Luck           86.6

Carson Palmer        86.3

Cam Newton           85.4

 

Now suffice it to say that Schaub has seen better days, and if you take into account that a lot of these guys are probably not going to be around in three years, who do you think is going to be near the top of the league? Then, again for shits and giggles, just think of the weapons that some of these QBs have had over the years and compare them to what Cam has had.  You got to be kidding me, dude.

His passer rating is not that far off from Andrew Luck, the purported gold standard of the young QBs.

 

Like I said, give Cam better conditions, or at least those equal to some of his peers before you throw him under the bus.  What you're trying to insinuate about him just being not that good is totally false, and that's before you take his running into account.

[TonyN]

Ok, so you want to play the peer game.

 

Here are your rankings (the first three are tops of all time):

 

Aaron Rodgers        106.0

Tony Romo              97.6

Peyton Manning       97.5

Tom Brady               95.9

Philip Rivers             95.7

Drew Brees             95.4

Ben Roethlisberger   95.9

Matt Ryan                91.1

Matt Schaub            89.9

Andrew Luck           86.6

Carson Palmer        86.3

Cam Newton           85.4

 

Now suffice it to say that Schaub has seen better days, and if you take into account that a lot of these guys are probably not going to be around in three years, who do you think is going to be near the top of the league? Then, again for shits and giggles, just think of the weapons that some of these QBs have had over the years and compare them to what Cam has had.  You got to be kidding me, dude.

His passer rating is not that far off from Andrew Luck, the purported gold standard of the young QBs.

 

Like I said, give Cam better conditions, or at least those equal to some of his peers before you throw him under the bus.  What you're trying to insinuate about him just being not that good is totally false, and that's before you take his running into account.

 

Don't forget about Wilson's 98.6

or Foles 94.2

or Kaepernick's 90.6

or Griffin's 90.6

or Bridgewater's 85.2

or Austin Davis' 85.1

 

all QB's with less experience than Newton and better/equal passing numbers. As far as Newton is concerned, I maintain what I have been saying about him for the last 2 1/2 seasons. He is a mediocre passer with good mobility. I stand by that assessment. I realize 3 1000 yard receivers and a top 10 rushing attack are not good enough weapons for Cam to put up big numbers---that's what the Panthers had in 2013...Cam just needed MORE "weapons" in order to finish above 16th in NFL passer rating...

[top dawg]

Don't forget about Wilson's 98.6

or Foles 94.2

or Kaepernick's 90.6

or Griffin's 90.6

or Bridgewater's 85.2

or Austin Davis' 85.1

 

all QB's with less experience than Newton and better/equal passing numbers. As far as Newton is concerned, I maintain what I have been saying about him for the last 2 1/2 seasons. He is a mediocre passer with good mobility. I stand by that assessment. I realize 3 1000 yard receivers and a top 10 rushing attack are not good enough weapons for Cam to put up big numbers---that's what the Panthers had in 2013...Cam just needed MORE "weapons" in order to finish above 16th in NFL passer rating...

 

Sorry. Try again. QBs must throw throw at least 1,500 passes for the regular season, and 150 attempts for the postseason, before their stats can even qualify for NFL career passer rating rankings.  

[top dawg]

Don't forget about Wilson's 98.6

or Foles 94.2

or Kaepernick's 90.6

or Griffin's 90.6

or Bridgewater's 85.2

or Austin Davis' 85.1

 

all QB's with less experience than Newton and better/equal passing numbers. As far as Newton is concerned, I maintain what I have been saying about him for the last 2 1/2 seasons. He is a mediocre passer with good mobility. I stand by that assessment. I realize 3 1000 yard receivers and a top 10 rushing attack are not good enough weapons for Cam to put up big numbers---that's what the Panthers had in 2013...Cam just needed MORE "weapons" in order to finish above 16th in NFL passer rating...

 

Moreover, are you trying to suggest that Foles, Kap, Griffin, and Wilson are better than Andre Luck?  Some people may think so, but most don't.  

[teeray]

People shouldn't even respond to TonyN.

The guy has been wrong more than anyone else on this board about just about everything.

I am not convinced he isn't really PFFL.

There are a lot of factors that go into evaluating a QB. Just looking at completion percentage and QB rating is not a good way

[OnlyPantherFaninMaine]

Don't forget about Wilson's 98.6

or Foles 94.2

or Kaepernick's 90.6

or Griffin's 90.6

or Bridgewater's 85.2

or Austin Davis' 85.1

 

all QB's with less experience than Newton and better/equal passing numbers. As far as Newton is concerned, I maintain what I have been saying about him for the last 2 1/2 seasons. He is a mediocre passer with good mobility. I stand by that assessment. I realize 3 1000 yard receivers and a top 10 rushing attack are not good enough weapons for Cam to put up big numbers---that's what the Panthers had in 2013...Cam just needed MORE "weapons" in order to finish above 16th in NFL passer rating...

 

Who the heck were the three 1,000 yard receivers Cam had in 2013? Greg Olsen was tops on the team in receiving yards in 2013 with 816. Top 10 rushing attack? With Cam's rushing totals added in the ground game ranked 11th in the league but if we are talking strictly production from the running backs...without Cam's 500+ yards on the ground that year we come in a single yard ahead of Miami for the 25th ranked rushing attack in the league. Are you just hoping no one would check your statistics at this point or was it an honest mistake thinking we had three 1,000 yard receivers in 2013 and a rushing attack in the top 10?

[tiger7_88]

He got overpaid, simple as that. Our TE has consistently performed better than him. Ok, let me ask you this, who would you have, Wallace or KB, Greg or Clay? Landry or Cotchery? If you can answer those then maybe we can agree on who has better "weapons".

Good players get "overpaid" in free agency all the time. Just because a player is overpaid doesn't mean he's not a good player.

As to your questions:

I'll take Pittsburgh Wallace over KB.

Olsen over Clay is an easy choice.

KB and Landry at this point is a push. One is a WR that makes spectacular catches but frequently drops easy ones. The other is a guy with totally dependable hands, but not the incredible physical skills that make KB so valuable. Neither are noted for speed. If KB can develop reliable hands, he will be the better WR. If not, Landry will be.

[tiger7_88]

The interesting thing is to look at Tannehill's numbers last season with a terrible roster...

and compare them, not with Newton's horrible numbers last season, but with Newton's "magic" rookie season when he played with an absolutely loaded offensive roster (Smith, Lafell, Olsen, Shockey and two running backs who averaged 5.4 yards a carry)...

Tannehill was better. And if you look around at what the talking heads are saying, almost every unbiased observer is saying that Tannehill is better. Now.

How many yards rushing did Tannehill have? How many rushing TDS?