Panthers Not Set At Wide Receiver

[NJPanthers12]

Why don't you stop talking then

I have read a majority of your posts in here and I can't seem to figure out what you want. You want the team to spend on free agents, but you are also aware that the team is not in great cap position? You do realize that we still need to sign players like Cam Newton, Luke Kuechly, Thomas Davis, and Josh Norman in upcoming seasons. If you listen to GMs speak they will tell you that you should build your team and devote your cap space to a QB, LT, DE, and CB. We have an unsigned QB and CB going into next season, and are letting our stud DE walk for free. I love charles Johnson, but we have 50 million committed into him, a RB, an OLB, and a C. That is not the best allocation of cap. I don't hnderstsnd people who are swearing we need to overpay for free agents . We just won back to back division titles while in cap hell. Can't wait to see what we are in for in the future.

[KSpan]

Lol at people who desperately run to the Packers to try and back this stance.I know that's it's tough to find teams that back the stance of penny pinching greed the team has shown over the year, but let's at leat avoid this argument because it's a strawman that bursts into flames when you look at the leagues best teams

Let's do a list of big time teams who are active in free agency every single year

New England (reigning Super Bowl champions, 6 Super Bowl appearances with current philosophy)

Seattle Seahawks (Two time conference champions, Super Bowl Championship last season)

Denver Broncos ( perennially deep post season contenders, Super Bowl appearance last season)

San Francisco 49ers (have consistently been one of league's most stacked teams, recent Super Bowl appearance, 3 straight conference championship appearances)

Indianapolis Colts (young team, consistently great, consistently make deep postseason runs without fluking in with a losing record)

The notion that we're "doing it the way it's meant to be done!" because you can isolate a team that oh so coincidentally has the best quarterback in the game is a laughable argument.

Guess what? We're doing it wrong, and until management is willing to finally give up on stop trying to be the 70's Steelers and actually try and be a dominant, desperate, bold contender in today's game, we will stay where we are at.

I said Green Bay was an example, and I hate to tell you but all of those teams are definite examples of the exact philosophy I've described - they're just already through the growing pains and reaping the rewards. Also, look back at the Giants, Steelers, and other two-time SB winners in the last decade... same philosophy.

I don't really have anything else to say on the subject, as you won't convince me that dropping a ton of money on a player or two will yield magical results. If anything, I agree with the sentiment that a switch at OC could be the biggest magic bullet out there.

[Growl]

I said Green Bay was an example, and I hate to tell you but all of those teams are definite examples of the exact philosophy I've described - they're just already through the growing pains and reaping the rewards. Also, look back at the Giants, Steelers, and other two-time SB winners in the last decade... same philosophy.

I don't really have anything else to say on the subject, as you won't convince me that dropping a ton of money on a player or two will yield magical results. If anything, I agree with the sentiment that a switch at OC could be the biggest magic bullet out there.

I stopped reading when you insinuated that each of those teams aren't active offseason players every single year. That's just a blatant lack of football knowledge, I'm sorry to tell you.

[top dawg]

LI understand both sides. I am willing to give G-man the benefit of the doubt for another year because team building in your own image (so to speak) takes time, but stop using last year's sneaking into the back door of the postseason as a showcase for all that's going right. Geez!

Teams have to pay their stars, that's just a given. I am not going to accept that as an excuse. This is Dave's third off season, so it's largely time to start shitting or getting off the pot.

People can fool themselves all they like about our sub par receiving corps. We are in but a little better position than we were last year because of KB, but other than KB who still has a lot of rawness to his game, we are what people thought we were last year: in need. That being said, free agency isn't over. Dave had better find a way to add some experienced talent to our corps that's actually effective. I would imagine that our YAC has to be on the bottom side of the league and going nowhere. You can't use the lack of funds as an excuse at this point because the big ticket items will soon be officially gone. The market that we are in has largely shifted to the mid to lower tier receivers who have questions, but can still help a team such as ours on the cheap. It's OK to go to Target and start in the clearance section, because you never know what you'll be able to find, but you're already in a discount store so you had better find what you had originally gone in there to look for.

[tiger7_88]

Some just keep talking and looking more foolish

Same one's every year, brah.

Nothing makes them happy. And if you DO try, they'll just move on to the next complaint.

[rmoneyg35]

Realistically I see our wide receiver corp look like this and yes I believe Cotchery will be cut.

1.KB

2.draftee( Jaelen Strong?)

3. Philly Brown (slot WR)

4.Boykin ( I believe he can be a solid 3-4 WR and looks like a Gettleman like signing.

5. Ginn ( I don't see him getting many snaps as a WR since Philly is better receiver and basically the same mold)

6/practice squad. Idk if we will have 6 WRs on the 53 man but I'm going on a limb and say it will be between Mike Brown, Brenton Bersin, Stephen Hill and Marcus Lucas with the potential of another drafted/UDFA WR.

Unless Mike Brown and/or Stephen Hill impresses in training camp they will probably be gone.

[KSpan]

I stopped reading when you insinuated that each of those teams aren't active offseason players every single year. That's just a blatant lack of football knowledge, I'm sorry to tell you.

 

I suggest you actually go take a look at the free agent signings of these teams for the past few years.  I'll even help you - here is 2012: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/12/2012-free-agent-tracker/

 

Know who Seattle's biggest external FA addition was?  Matt Flynn, but they DRAFTED Russel Wilson

 

Know who NE's biggest external FA addition was?  Brandon Lloyd, but they DRAFTED Chandler Jones

 

Know who Indianapolis' biggest externa FAl addition was? Cory Redding, but they DRAFTED Andrew Luck

 

Know who Pittsburgh's biggest external addition was?  Jerricho Cotchery, but they DRAFTED David DeCastro

 

Know who Green Bay's biggest external addition was?  Tony Hartgrove, but they DRAFTED Nick Perry

 

Know who eventual-SB champ Baltimore's biggest external addition was?  Corey Graham, but they DRAFTED Bernard Pierce

 

 

Yes, these teams are now able to sign big names, buf it's because they spent seasons building internally under quality talent leadership and being fiscally responsible, much like Carolina is doing now.  You and many of the other people whining about free agents look like a clown when actual FA data are reviewed. 

[rmoneyg35]

I suggest you actually go take a look at the free agent signings of these teams for the past few years. I'll even help you - here is 2012: https://www.profootballfocus.com/blog/2012/01/12/2012-free-agent-tracker/

Know who Seattle's biggest external FA addition was? Matt Flynn, but they DRAFTED Russel Wilson

Know who NE's biggest external FA addition was? Brandon Lloyd, but they DRAFTED Chandler Jones

Know who Indianapolis' biggest externa FAl addition was? Cory Redding, but they DRAFTED Andrew Luck

Know who Pittsburgh's biggest external addition was? Jerricho Cotchery, but they DRAFTED David DeCastro

Know who Green Bay's biggest external addition was? Tony Hartgrove, but they DRAFTED Nick Perry

Know who eventual-SB champ Baltimore's biggest external addition was? Corey Graham, but they DRAFTED Bernard Pierce

Yes, these teams are now able to sign big names, buf it's because they spent seasons building internally under quality talent leadership and being fiscally responsible, much like Carolina is doing now. You and many of the other people whining about free agents look like a clown when actual FA data are reviewed.

Drafting well and finding UDFA are key to being successful in the NFL. If it was all about free agency then Washington would have won quiet a bit of super bowls in the past 10 years. Finding the Right free agent can help win a Super Bowl as well but it's just not as common. Patriots got Browner and Revis, Lafell and Blount who played key to the Patriots winning the Super Bowl. In the past teams needed that one extra piece of the puzzle to win a Super Bowl for example:

Deon Sanders with the 49ers and Cowboys.

Todd Hayley going from the 49ers to the Cowboys was a big move.

Brees to New Orleans.

Packers signing Woodson.

Even a smaller signing like Jacoby Jones to Baltimore.

While drafting well is the most important part and is responsible for most of the Roster sometimes one or a few free agents can be the difference between a Conference champ and Super bowl champ.

[heel31ok]

Everyone wanting us to get another WR I just have one question.  Where is he going to play?  Greg Olsen will be on the field on almost every play.  Kelvin will see most of the snaps on offense.  They are not going to cut Brown or Ginn now.  Usually 4 or 5 receivers are active on gameday.  Cotchery would cost us money to cut right now and as much as people like to say he sucks he doesn't suck he is just not great and doesn't have great speed to stretch a defense.  I am not saying they won't get another receiver in FA or the draft.  I think they will, but maybe not a big time #2 receiver that everyone thinks we need so bad.  It would not surprise me if the only other receiver they get is like a 4th or 5th round draft pick like a Kenny Bell or Stefon Diggs or Tre McBride.  And they might not be active all year unless someone get injured.

so you see us adding more mediocrity to what we already have?

[AU-panther]

This is massively overstated here on this board, as is evidenced by the teams who continually find success in both FA and in games each year despite being up against the purported cap.

Here's a good article I've posted before from former Packers VP and cap manager Andrew Brandt, on the "salary cap myth." It's an article I've considered putting in its own thread.

Essentially, he discusses how the cap is so easy to manipulate that it doesn't really matter when building a team.

http://mmqb.si.com/2015/02/25/nfl-salary-cap-myth-los-angeles-stadium/

 

Did you even read the article?

 

The myth he is referring to is the idea that teams can't sign a player because of a lack of cap space.  His point is that thru restructures and signing bonuses you can almost always free up enough money to sign a particular player. 

 

With a big enough signing bonus you can get most contracts down to a pretty low number in the first few years.  Same with restructures.  Heck, we could have about $40m in cap space if DG wanted us to with a few cuts and restructures.

 

If you read the article he actually states that "secret to managing the cap" is keeping cash and cap spending close to the same.  This prevents you from incurring future charges and also allows you flexibility.  This philosophy is the exact opposite of what he is talking about with manipulating the cap to fit a guy in.

 

The above scenario is exactly what happened to the Panthers.  Hurney manipulated the cap in order to fit more talent on the team and DG inherited the future charges and the decreased flexibility, especially in 2013 and 2014.  We actually have a little more cap space and flexibility this year but that doesn't mean we need to go out and overspend.

 

Lol at people who desperately run to the Packers to try and back this stance.I know that's it's tough to find teams that back the stance of penny pinching greed the team has shown over the year, but let's at leat avoid this argument because it's a strawman that bursts into flames when you look at the leagues best teams

Let's do a list of big time teams who are active in free agency every single year

New England (reigning Super Bowl champions, 6 Super Bowl appearances with current philosophy)

Seattle Seahawks (Two time conference champions, Super Bowl Championship last season)

Denver Broncos ( perennially deep post season contenders, Super Bowl appearance last season)

San Francisco 49ers (have consistently been one of league's most stacked teams, recent Super Bowl appearance, 3 straight conference championship appearances)

Indianapolis Colts (young team, consistently great, consistently make deep postseason runs without fluking in with a losing record)

The notion that we're "doing it the way it's meant to be done!" because you can isolate a team that oh so coincidentally has the best quarterback in the game is a laughable argument.

Guess what? We're doing it wrong, and until management is willing to finally give up on stop trying to be the 70's Steelers and actually try and be a dominant, desperate, bold contender in today's game, we will stay where we are at.

 

Everyone likes to reference the Pats as big free agency players but in reality they are one of the most frugal teams in the league. 

 

While they occasionally get a "big name" player like Revis or Moss they very rarely over pay for a guy.  They traded away a fan favorite pro bowler (Logan Mankins) in the middle of the season because they felt like his production to match with his cap hit.  How would this fan base react to us trading away Kalil?

 

Look at what they did with LaGarrette Blount.  They had him on a cheap one year deal.  He played well and left for more money.  They didn't overpay to keep him.  He later was released from his new team and the Pats resigned him to another cheap deal.  Sounds like what happened to Ginn.

 

What about the free agents that they let leave.  They asked Brandon Browner to take a pay cut and when he wouldn't they let him walk.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2015/03/10/report-brandon-browner-wont-take-pay-cut/

Even with the Revis deal they didn't overspend. Although it was listed as a 2 year deal for all practical purposes it was a one year deal for $12m dollars. $12m for arguably the best corner of this generation seems quite fair.

http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2014/03/13/revis-gets-12-million-this-year-20-million-or-free-agency-next-year/

[Pox2]

Drafting well and finding UDFA are key to being successful in the NFL. If it was all about free agency then Washington would have won quiet a bit of super bowls in the past 10 years. Finding the Right free agent can help win a Super Bowl as well but it's just not as common. Patriots got Browner and Revis, Lafell and Blount who played key to the Patriots winning the Super Bowl. In the past teams needed that one extra piece of the puzzle to win a Super Bowl for example:

Deon Sanders with the 49ers and Cowboys.

Todd Hayley going from the 49ers to the Cowboys was a big move.

Brees to New Orleans.

Packers signing Woodson.

Even a smaller signing like Jacoby Jones to Baltimore.

While drafting well is the most important part and is responsible for most of the Roster sometimes one or a few free agents can be the difference between a Conference champ and Super bowl champ.

 

 

 

great retort

 

 

Lets not forget about Revis and Browner to the Pats. That move finally put them over the hump after a streak of post season failures.

 

 

 

 

[KSpan]

Drafting well and finding UDFA are key to being successful in the NFL. If it was all about free agency then Washington would have won quiet a bit of super bowls in the past 10 years. Finding the Right free agent can help win a Super Bowl as well but it's just not as common. Patriots got Browner and Revis, Lafell and Blount who played key to the Patriots winning the Super Bowl. In the past teams needed that one extra piece of the puzzle to win a Super Bowl for example:

Deon Sanders with the 49ers and Cowboys.

Todd Hayley going from the 49ers to the Cowboys was a big move.

Brees to New Orleans.

Packers signing Woodson.

Even a smaller signing like Jacoby Jones to Baltimore.

While drafting well is the most important part and is responsible for most of the Roster sometimes one or a few free agents can be the difference between a Conference champ and Super bowl champ.

Absolutely, but several of those moves were from the pre-cap era. Moves like Brees and Woods on were also exceptional values. Revis to NE is the only huge-money example I can think of that arguably put a team over the hump, but NE had the money to do it because of masterful cap handling and solid talent across the rest of the roster.

[KSpan]

great retort

Lets not forget about Revis and Browner to the Pats. That move finally put them over the hump after a streak of post season failures.

Yeah, but NE got awesome value for those players - they sure didn't pay $40M guaranteed to Revised. I'm not saying that individual moves don't help, because they absolutely do. But paying top dollar in FA rarely pans out, and it sure isn't the secret sauce for 'good teams' that people make it out to be.

[bababoey]

so you see us adding more mediocrity to what we already have?

 

Younger mediocrity maybe.  Otherwise to get a true #2, as everyone wants, we are going to end up spending at least 20 million.  With about maybe 6-8 of that guaranteed.  If you want more help with the secondary and a DE that can start, I just don't see how that can happen without doing some Hurney economics and screwing yourself in the future.  In the draft sure, go with BPA.  In UFA, I just don't see how you can afford another expensive WR.