The Brayton Experiment?

[firstdayfan]

How does everyone think that Brayton is doing as a passing down defensive tackle? I know its really early and the games don't count but to me I don't think he has got much penetration. I think we would be better off with Irvin on passing downs because he does have a little quickness about him. Brayton does come in handy when they throw it to the running back underneath because he is usually being pushed back 5-7 yards anyway which puts him in perfect position to make the tackle!

Just kidding about that last part but seriously what do you guys think about having Brayton play tackle on passing downs. I thought it was a good idea but now I'm not so sure.

Oh and don't kill me guys I know its just preseason, just throwing it out there for discussion.

[tim]

Moving him inside is pointless. All he does is occupy a man. He gets 0 penetration, and when he does find himself inside the pocket he doesn't know what to do. Somehow he fell in to 4.5 sacks last year, but I don't know how many of those occurred when he was lined up at DT. Heck, Oakland gave up on him because he sucks at DT. Put Irvin in and you'd get at least as much production, plus you'd be getting some use out of your 3rd rounder.

I like him as a running down DE. He doesn't let RB's by him often. But speed and penetration are definitely not his best skills.

[Brandon]

Moving him inside is pointless. All he does is occupy a man. He gets 0 penetration, and when he does find himself inside the pocket he doesn't know what to do. Somehow he fell in to 4.5 sacks last year, but I don't know how many of those occurred when he was lined up at DT. Heck, Oakland gave up on him because he sucks at DT. Put Irvin in and you'd get at least as much production, plus you'd be getting some use out of your 3rd rounder.

I like him as a running down DE. He doesn't let RB's by him often. But speed and penetration are definitely not his best skills.

Brayton often got penetration but had a hard time finishing. He did get pressure on the QB a fair amount last year.

Using Oakland's roster moves as a reason to evaluate a player is quite possibly the worst argument anyone can make in a football conversation.

[Panthro]

Using Oakland's roster moves as a reason to evaluate a player is quite possibly the worst argument anyone can make in a football conversation.

Have you checked out your posts in the Thigpen thread?

[Fireball77]

Using Oakland's roster moves as a reason to evaluate a player is quite possibly the worst argument anyone can make in a football conversation.

No doubt about it.

Just NE and Oak trades alone should end that argument (minus the Gabriel experiment that failed). Also look at how much better Walter looked after being in NE like 3 days than he looked against Carolina last year. He will probably end up being serviceable as a backup.

[panthers55]

Anyone who thought he didn't play well last year obviously isn't watching closely, has an axe to grind, or knows nothing about football. Take your pick.

Brayton was one of our best run defenders despite being often double teamed. When he slid over to tackle he filled kemo's role which was to occupy blockers, watch for the draw, and shoot the gap to get penetration. Much of Charles Johnson's success was due to Brayton allowing Johnson to come around the end as Tyler tied up the guard and center. The defensive scheme was designed for peppers and Lewis to get the pressure while Kemo and Brayton clogged up their side and kept folks off Davis who had a career year because of it.

[tim]

Brayton often got penetration but had a hard time finishing.

Yeah, I have that same problem.

What has Brayton done at DT to prove Oakland wrong? Would you want him starting inside?

[tim]

The defensive scheme was designed for peppers and Lewis to get the pressure while Kemo and Brayton clogged up their side and kept folks off Davis who had a career year because of it.

How were they doing that from the opposite side of the line?

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a very good 2-down DE, but OP was about his play inside which I think is on par with a second string guy. So why not develop an actual DT instead of moving Brayton?

[Baschski]

We have plenty of capable of DE's. While Brayton is one of the best we have at end, I'd have liked to see him moved inside after Kemo went down. He's one of the best run stoppers we have and I think he could fill the spot better than Hayden or Favorite. Getting interior pressure is hardly a priority right now. We need to stop the run first and foremost.

Either way, it doesn't matter. If they were going to move Brayton to DT more permanently, they would have done it a long time ago. He's going to stay at DE.

[Snake]

Brayton is no DT. He dose well on passing downs but would get ate alive on Rushing downs. The G would out weight him by 60 pounds at least.

[panthers55]

How were they doing that from the opposite side of the line?

Don't get me wrong, I think he's a very good 2-down DE, but OP was about his play inside which I think is on par with a second string guy. So why not develop an actual DT instead of moving Brayton?

We have gone over this several times. The defensive line scheme was skewed so that Kemo played over the center shading to the outside of the center's right shoulder (left side of the line). By doing that the guard would be singled on Lewis who was in the 3 technique in the gap between the guard and tackle. Peppers was lined in the 5 technique outside of the tackle. With Kemo occupying the center, both Lewis and Peppers were singled up and could shoot the gap. Brayton and Kemo had to cover the center, guard, tackle, and end when they went strong to their side. Meanwhile Lewis and Peppers were either singled or the end could chip Peppers if they go strong to that side. In any case they had fewer people to block and more opportunity to penetrate.

When Brayton went inside he was often blocked by the center and guard in a double team while Johnson was singled on the edge. He wasn't expected to get much penetration. Hence the reason that even a guy like Jenkins in his prime rarely has more than 4 or 5 sacks in a season. If you get penetration they double you pretty quickly. If you want to complain about anyone how about Lewis who was pretty underwhelming in a defensive scheme designed to turn him loose.

[1789Cardiac Cats9020]

yeah, Brayton wasn't supposed to be a DT in the traditional sense. Panthers55 explained that pretty well. rep

[tim]

My issue was with:

The defensive scheme was designed for peppers and Lewis to get the pressure while Kemo and Brayton clogged up their side and kept folks off Davis who had a career year because of it.

...since that would be Diggs.

When Brayton went inside he was often blocked by the center and guard in a double team while Johnson was singled on the edge. He wasn't expected to get much penetration. Hence the reason that even a guy like Jenkins in his prime rarely has more than 4 or 5 sacks in a season. If you get penetration they double you pretty quickly. If you want to complain about anyone how about Lewis who was pretty underwhelming in a defensive scheme designed to turn him loose.

I get it, but the question still remains: why is Brayton better suited for that role than a DT we're trying to develop? I'm not "complaining" about Brayton. I think he's done a good job. I just don't think there's any benefit to moving him inside vs. our other options.

[panthers55]

My issue was with:

...since that would be Diggs.

I get it, but the question still remains: why is Brayton better suited for that role than a DT we're trying to develop? I'm not "complaining" about Brayton. I think he's done a good job. I just don't think there's any benefit to moving him inside vs. our other options.

When the TE lines up to the strong side that would be Diggs. But Davis played weakside last year and with Lewis and Peppers singled on the right side they often lined up the TE on Digg's side to block. I don't remember the LBs switching sides though based on the TE all the time.

As for being better suited, it isn't that we don't want to develop a guy or bring someone in. But right now with the guys we have, he has more experience playing DE in a 3-4 which is essentially a DT in a 4-3 than guys like Hayden or Favorite who have no experience. He gets more push and penetration on passing downs which is why he came in for Kemo. I don't see him lined up inside most of the time though.