We were looking at Thigpen???

[Fireball77]

When you bring up either Atl game and Denver as examples of his having a crappy game that tells me all I need to know. There is absolutely NO WAY ON EARTH I can think of that anyone could justify those as crappy games the way one can with Oak or AZ in the playoffs.

Whose doing was it that in ten games he had zero INTS?

[KillerKat]

When you bring up either Atl game and Denver as examples of his having a crappy game that tells me all I need to know. There is absolutely NO WAY ON EARTH I can think of that anyone could justify those as crappy games the way one can with Oak or AZ in the playoffs.

Whose doing was it that in ten games he had zero INTS?

What's it tell you?

And how bout you dismissing Anderson's concussion and torn MCL? And ignoring that in his best year he threw 10 more TDs than INTs while Jake in his worst threw more INTs than TDs ?

Jake turned the ball over in the denver game and started having trouble connecting with his recievers. Thats when we turned to Williams and Stewart to dominate the game. Jake was starting to go down hill, but Williams and Stewart saved the game for us. Alot of others on here saw it that way too after the game.

In the Atlanta game Jake had an iffy game. I remember him struggling later in the game when we needed him. However, also in this game the Defense let us down. Of the 2 games, this one is what is most up in the air for me. I can agree with either side on this one cause Jake couldn't help the team more than he could 'cause of the complete collapse of the defense.

These 2 games are the ones I said are debateable. Funny how you bring them up to totally dismiss the 6 solid cases of the others.

[Cyberjag]

In any honest apples to apples comparison, Delhomme wins. Fox and Hurney know this.

But since you disagree with what comes across as an almost religious fervor, can you tell me where and when we could have gotten a better QB than Jake without taking apart the team?

[CharlotteBeer.com]

can you tell me where and when we could have gotten a better QB than Jake without taking apart the team?

And that's what it all comes down to.

Hate him or love him, Jake's our best option this year.

[Cyberjag]

Hmm...

***crickets***

[BlindSite]

I'm actually a huge fan of Thigpen and I think he's a legitimate QB in the NFL.

[CharlotteBeer.com]

I'm actually a huge fan of Thigpen and I think he's a legitimate QB in the NFL.

Same here.

There are a plethora of current backup quarterbacks that I wish we had cap space to make a move for. I'm not writing of Moore as our quarterback of the future yet, but he's looked less than impressive in the preseason.

[Woodie]

Not getting in the middle of the arguement, but just want to point out one thing. After the season, either Fox or Delhomme (I'm thinking Fox, but am not 100% certain) said that during both bye weeks (prior to Oakland and Arizona) they wanted to get Jake's arm some rest, so they gave him some extra days off. But it somewhat backfired because instead of rejuvinating his arm, it caused it to stiffen up. Now you can take that for what you want, but the numbers in both games are among the worst of Jake's career, so it makes sense that his play was directly impacted by the stiffness.

[Fireball77]

Woodie, someone posted about that I think it was a guy on Sirius radio who reported that. Who it came from exactly was not mentioned by that poster, but it was someone on the staff. Maybe a trainer?

So speculating that it affected Jake's play is better than knowing that concussions can affect your play after other players have talked about them before and said that it indeed affected their play? yeah...ok...whatever you say.

That isn't what I said. You are not stupid, so I can only assume your bias is at work again. Your point seems to be unless the player whines to the press about it or the injury has some effects that are known like concussions that there IS no effect. That's not logical in any way shape or form. Any time a player comes back from a major surgery there is an effect. Have you ever had surgery on your arm? I have and am affected to this day almost 12 years later. Luckily I don't play football. If it makes you feel better to have "proof", Mark Schlereth talked about how TJ affects baseball players (sometimes you are on sometimes you are off, which certainly describes some games Jake had last year) and he has experience with being around that since his son is a pitcher.

What's it tell you?

And how bout you dismissing Anderson's concussion and torn MCL? And ignoring that in his best year he threw 10 more TDs than INTs while Jake in his worst threw more INTs than TDs ?

Jake turned the ball over in the denver game and started having trouble connecting with his recievers. Thats when we turned to Williams and Stewart to dominate the game. Jake was starting to go down hill, but Williams and Stewart saved the game for us. Alot of others on here saw it that way too after the game.

In the Atlanta game Jake had an iffy game. I remember him struggling later in the game when we needed him. However, also in this game the Defense let us down. Of the 2 games, this one is what is most up in the air for me. I can agree with either side on this one cause Jake couldn't help the team more than he could 'cause of the complete collapse of the defense.

These 2 games are the ones I said are debateable. Funny how you bring them up to totally dismiss the 6 solid cases of the others.

Den-Actually most people saw, and it was discussed a bit afterwards by players/coaches and on here that the Cats going to hurry up & throwing to back the 8 out of the box and that's what loosened up the Denver D fro the run game, but of course you didn't see that because it didn't fit your bias. Yeah he turned it over a bunch vs Den. One int. He had a 65% comp % and 9.7 YPA. I can clearly see why you think he struggled upon watching the game and looking at the stats. Geeze louise.

Jake struggled a bit early in the ATL game then did a very good job in the second half. Do you have a bad memory or is your bias that great?

I didn't answer about the other games you mentioned? I think that was self explanatory in my initial response that those two games defining bad or shaky for you told me all I needed to know about how you judge him. Besides I also don't agree that all those games were horrible either in the context of doing some things to help your team win. SD and Chi weren't statistically pretty and he was off accuracy wise, but down the stretch he helped his team. I don't call those HORRIBLE games (like Oak) for that reason.

I don't care about the DA best/Jake worst argument.

And I notice YOU did not answer about the 10 games without INTS. I assume that was because of Smitty, DWill, Moose and Stewart, right?

He's not the best QB in the world, he's not and never will be elite. But to say he's as bad as you purport is silliness, pure and simple. I don't expect elite performances all the time from a non-elite guy. You do. I look at his performances as what should be expected from HIM not what should be expected from Tom Brady (who, by the way, has had a couple "FAIL" playoff games one of which his team overcame that to win).

I would respect it more if you would just simply say that you despise him and that no amount that he could ever do or has done would make you happy he was the QB like other people on here have done with him because you hate him personally. At least it's honest instead of trying to use different standards or ridiculously high ones or lack of logic so he "fails" all the time.

[Cyberjag]

You are not stupid, so I can only assume your bias is at work again.

Whoa there FB, let's not jump to conclusions. Maybe he IS stupid...

Just kidding.... :)

[Panthro]

I would respect it more if you would just simply say that you despise him and that no amount that he could ever do or has done would make you happy he was the QB like other people on here have done with him because you hate him personally. At least it's honest instead of trying to use different standards or ridiculously high ones or lack of logic so he "fails" all the time.

I don't despise him I just want him to be a better QB. We have quite a bit of money invested in him....

[Cyberjag]

I don't despise him I just want him to be a better QB. We have quite a bit of money invested in him....

Everybody wants that, and he actually is better than just about every alternative we've had since he came here. I'm all for drafting his replacement this year, and would be thrilled if Moore became an all-world guy. But neither has happened yet, and there's no sense crying over it and exaggerrating Jakes flaws and ignoring his strengths until it does. Even then, that behavior will get you nowhere, at least not with people who don't already hate Jake.

Fans don't like it when you constantly criticize their team, have you noticed that?

[Panthro]

Fans don't like it when you constantly criticize their team, have you noticed that?

I'm criticizing just Jake....when you equate that to criticizing the Panthers Org as a whole you become a snuggler. I love the Panthers but a large % of the fanbase is borderline Terry Schiavo-esque and irritate the crap out of me

[Fireball77]

I don't despise him I just want him to be a better QB. We have quite a bit of money invested in him....

I would hate to see how you treat people you DO despise then. If you don't despise him personally why do you always miss no opportunity to make a mean or nasty crack about him no matter what the topic and message board high five those others who do the same? You don't do all that with any other player.

FTR if all you ever posted were statements like the one I quoted, I would never get the impression you despised him. There's a difference between real critique and continuous insults.

General point not aimed at anyone specific:

It has nothing to do with being a homer for any player. I stuck up for Gamble when he had the lateral, Foster when people called him names, and Kasay many times also since people feel the need to bring up the SB every so often. Why be mean and snarky like a teenage girl? It makes me respect people less when they are. If you use 8th grade insults and logic, I will think of you as a mental 8th grader not someone who brings anything to the table football knowledge wise. Not that anyone cares or should care what I think above anyone else, but just to explain my position.