Is a staff change out of the realm of possibility now?

[panthers55]

Because Rivera and staff should only be judged on the last six games.

(at least that's what I got from watching his presser)

That assumes that you agree that much of our early season struggles were due to have a bunch of rookies and unproven guys who needed time to learn the system and develop chemistry.  Seems both Gettleman and Rivera admit that the talent level was not there due to cap constraints and they know they would struggle. They talk about the progress of the new guys and how well the staff did coaching the guys up to be able to play at a high level by the seasons end given it was going to be an uphill battle..

 

If you don't agree with those assumptions then you might feel very differently. 

[Goondal]

What he did over a decade ago has little to do with today.  Do you want people bringing up your shortcomings of a decade ago as justification for how you doing now or do you think you might have grown and improved over that amount of time.

 

If he had shown evidence of growth or improvement then I would agree.  I lived in the Tampa area back then and so I watched a lot of their games.  The stuff we see him do week in and week out is the same type of stuff he did back then.  The complaints that we as fans make about him today are the same that Buc fans made about him back then.

[Jangler]

What he did over a decade ago has little to do with today.  Do you want people bringing up your shortcomings of a decade ago as justification for how you doing now or do you think you might have grown and improved over that amount of time.

 

yup, when a new job I'm going for asks for a background check, I always think "well not being arrested for 25 years has to count for something....right?"

[panthers55]

If he had shown evidence of growth or improvement then I would agree.  I lived in the Tampa area back then and so I watched a lot of their games.  The stuff we see him do week in and week out is the same type of stuff he did back then.  The complaints that we as fans make about him today are the same that Buc fans made about him back then.

The offense he runs now doesn't resemble the one in Tampa at all. If you dont know that then we won't be able to have a football conversation. As for fans bitching about the OC, that could fit a number of teams.  It hardly means because there is bitching that the complaints are valid.

[panthers55]

yup, when a new job I'm going for asks for a background check, I always think "well not being arrested for 25 years has to count for something....right?"

More like when you go for a job interview they talk about what you did when you were 15 as justification for why you should get the job now without consideration for what you have done in the past 10 years.

[unicar15]

Shula-ball has us in the playoffs 2-years running. Our players are getting comfortable with the system and as much as I dislike the play-calling. It would royally suck to start over with a new OC.

You don't have to overhaul the system just get a play caller in there that can get this team into good redzone formations. That's all I ask...the rest of the offense suits the players. The redzone calls are what kill me.

We were 26th in redzone scoring last year when counting for TDS. Only playoff team worse was Zona and they were playing a backup QB 90% of the season.

There's just no reason that with a player like Can at QB, Olsen, stew, and KB that we should struggle. When Seattle is 20th with essentially Lynch and Wilson just making plays.

[Goondal]

The offense he runs now doesn't resemble the one in Tampa at all. If you dont know that then we won't be able to have a football conversation. As for fans bitching about the OC, that could fit a number of teams.  It hardly means because there is bitching that the complaints are valid.

 

Third down play calling, red zone play calling, and being too conservative overall were among his biggest issues in Tampa.  Maybe you think that he has changed in those areas but I respectfully disagree.  In my opinion those are issues that can negatively effect any offense.

[panthers55]

Third down play calling, red zone play calling, and being too conservative overall were among his biggest issues in Tampa. Maybe you think that he has changed in those areas but I respectfully disagree. In my opinion those are issues that can negatively effect any offense.

The only one that I think is an issue is red zone execution. Not sure that the play calls are bad as much as no O line push, frequent drops and fumbles and lack of reliable red zone targets not named Olsen. Since Newton most times calls the play from the line of scrimmage if you want to criticize any play calling it is most likelly his poor play choosing not Shula's 2 or 3 plays he gives Newton the choice to call.

[Goondal]

The only one that I think is an issue is red zone execution. Not sure that the play calls are bad as much as no O line push, frequent drops and fumbles and lack of reliable red zone targets not named Olsen. Since Newton most times calls the play from the line of scrimmage if you want to criticize any play calling it is most likelly his poor play choosing not Shula's 2 or 3 plays he gives Newton the choice to call.

 

Even if it is Cam that is responsible for the poor third down play calling then would it not be Shula's job to fix that?

[panthers55]

Even if it is Cam that is responsible for the poor third down play calling then would it not be Shula's job to fix that?

It would be both of their jobs. Shula to instruct and Newton to learn it. They are a team and how Newton goes so does the offense and by proxy, Shula.

[Goondal]

It would be both of their jobs. Shula to instruct and Newton to learn it. They are a team and how Newton goes so does the offense and by proxy, Shula.

 

So if it is not getting fixed then either:

 

A) Shula does not recognize the issue and therefore did not instruct Cam so he could not learn

Shula did recognize and and instructed Cam on what to do different and Cam did not learn it

 

If it is A then it is on Shula.  If it is B then it is initially on Cam but then it is up to Shula to recognize that what he is doing is still not working and either figure out a way for Cam to learn it or to give him less options until he can handle it.

 

I should also add that in Shula's six years as an OC his offense has never finished in the top half in points scored and only once finished in the top half in yards (sixteenth this season so literally the last spot in the top half).  I do not feel that some of those seasons occurring fifteen years ago or the fact that Rivera improved in the third year of his first HC job so maybe it will happen to Shula at his second job are good reasons to keep him.  Not when better options could have been possible.

 

When you continue to employ someone that is consistently below the fiftieth percentile then it really is one of those "fool me twice" situations.  The last thing I want is to have the team to win a ring, fail to do so because of a continuously below average offense, and then be sitting there a few years from now thinking "shame on us."

[panthers55]

So if it is not getting fixed then either:

A) Shula does not recognize the issue and therefore did not instruct Cam so he could not learn

Shula did recognize and and instructed Cam on what to do different and Cam did not learn it

If it is A then it is on Shula. If it is B then it is initially on Cam but then it is up to Shula to recognize that what he is doing is still not working and either figure out a way for Cam to learn it or to give him less options until he can handle it.

I should also add that in Shula's six years as an OC his offense has never finished in the top half in points scored and only once finished in the top half in yards (sixteenth this season so literally the last spot in the top half). I do not feel that some of those seasons occurring fifteen years ago or the fact that Rivera improved in the third year of his first HC job so maybe it will happen to Shula at his second job are good reasons to keep him. Not when better options could have been possible.

When you continue to employ someone that is consistently below the fiftieth percentile then it really is one of those "fool me twice" situations. The last thing I want is to have the team to win a ring, fail to do so because of a continuously below average offense, and then be sitting there a few years from now thinking "shame on us."

the season is over. I am not going to spend all offseason rehashing this debate for months. I don't agree with your analysis or logic. I am looking forward to improving the offensive talent to give him the tools he needs to run his system. I will leave it to others to keep up the bitching and complaining.

[Goondal]

the season is over. I am not going to spend all offseason rehashing this debate for months. I don't agree with your analysis or logic. I am looking forward to improving the offensive talent to give him the tools he needs to run his system. I will leave it to others to keep up the bitching and complaining.

 

Not sure what I wrote that you disagreed with but okay, agree to disagree.  I may be right, I may be wrong, would not be the first time for either.  Since we are stuck with Shula for at least another year I hope it is the latter.

[All about the Benjamin]

On the bright side of Rodgers keeping his job, Special Teams couldn't get any worse this coming year? Right?