Deflate-Gate: Patriots Being Investigated For Deflated Footballs

[JARROD]

I guess these comments are my biggest fundamental difference you and I. You think circumventing the rules and finding ways to cheat without getting caught make you smart. I think it makes you an A**hole with no integrity, that can never be trusted, will never be respected, and basically a miserable human being.

True we will always disagree in regards to a game of competition.

Ted Turner once won a Yacht sailing race by sailing through the night because there was no rule against it, but no one did. Everyone called it cheating where I call it smart and tenacious.

Elections have been won by picking up vans full of voters and bringing them to vote where the competition didnt, going the extra mile.

Trainers once figured out that squatting just before a 100 meter race gave .10 off the times. Made the difference between 9.95 and 10.05. Unfair advantage and no integrity? Not in my book.

If the balls were done legally without breaking any rules, it was innovative but no doubt will cause a rule change.

So we will agree to disagree. On a further note,

A debate is just a disagreement however I still respect your point of view.

Calling someone like myself, a Marine veteran like my father and grandfather and great grandfather someone with no integrity would be crossing the line.

Take care

[JARROD]

I don't this comparison is the same. The eligible vs non-eligible declaration is gamesmanship. Completely legal. I could see the rules committee rule on this tactic (maybe allow defensive substitutions even if the offense did not, but the offense did have players change declaration before allowing the snap to occur) No hurry up offense if players are changing declarations while staying on the field. Dunno.

In your example of filling up with hot air at the minimum PSI violates the rule even if this specific process is not spelled out. You know that the ball would lose quite a bit PSI to go below the minimum during the course of the game. If the balls had just been .5 PSI lower to 12 PSI total using room temp air, then this story would be dead. You'd still have detractors out there, but to use a loophole because the rule didn't spell out every single possibility is still a violation.

This is an intellegent response and worth debating.

In the military, you have an article which is a "catch all" article for things like this.

Do something outside of the rules, just because they arent spelled out correctly and you are still screwed.

If theres a clause in the NFL bylaws that mentions actions detrimental to the game or some similar language then you would be correct.

And that would go back to my statment about being retarded. if they were smart enough to circumvent the rules but somehow forgot to read a rule like that,..

Then I would lose all respect, put them in the category of DUMBEST,...EVER-- Hank Moody style.

If they all got banned for life at that point and had the Superbowls stricken from the books and locked out of Canton,.. then they got what they deserved.

[cgarsmoker]

True we will always disagree in regards to a game of competition.

Ted Turner once won a Yacht sailing race by sailing through the night because there was no rule against it, but no one did. Everyone called it cheating where I call it smart and tenacious.

Elections have been won by picking up vans full of voters and bringing them to vote where the competition didnt, going the extra mile.

Trainers once figured out that squatting just before a 100 meter race gave .10 off the times. Made the difference between 9.95 and 10.05. Unfair advantage and no integrity? Not in my book.

If the balls were done legally without breaking any rules, it was innovative but no doubt will cause a rule change.

So we will agree to disagree. On a further note,

A debate is just a disagreement however I still respect your point of view.

Calling someone like myself, a Marine veteran like my father and grandfather and great grandfather someone with no integrity would be crossing the line.

Take care

I respect your point of view as well. I was referring to the Pats or people who find ways to subvert the rules when it has a negative impact on other people - not you specifically. I don't know you well enough to make that determination. I'd like to think if you you gave me your word and shook my hand on something, then that would be important and binding to you. However, since it isn't a written contract and you're a fan of loopholes if it suites your purpose, should I trust/believe you?

I guess it's a hot button for me because I have dealt with so many people in the sales/marketing industry that will screw you over as easily as they say good morning. It's sickening to know your boss and/or coworkers are completely untrustworthy because they're always looking for the easy way to rip someone off instead of simply putting in the work and becoming good at their job. It's a primary reason I went into business for myself nearly 13 years ago and the shady guys with no integrity rode the wave until they were exposed and faded away. Looking for a loophole to legally be dishonest isn't my style and I have a sincere disdain for people who live that way. That's just me....

[JARROD]

I respect your point of view as well. I was referring to the Pats or people who find ways to subvert the rules when it has a negative impact on other people - not you specifically. I don't know you well enough to make that determination. I'd like to think if you you gave me your word and shook my hand on something, then that would be important and binding to you. However, since it isn't a written contract and you're a fan of loopholes if it suites your purpose, should I trust/believe you?

I guess it's a hot button for me because I have dealt with so many people in the sales/marketing industry that will screw you over as easily as they say good morning. It's sickening to know your boss and/or coworkers are completely untrustworthy because they're always looking for the easy way to rip someone off instead of simply putting in the work and becoming good at their job. It's a primary reason I went into business for myself nearly 13 years ago and the shady guys with no integrity rode the wave until they were exposed and faded away. Looking for a loophole to legally be dishonest isn't my style and I have a sincere disdain for people who live that way. That's just me....

On everything you just said, in terms of people being hurt, businesses getting put out because they play by the rules and someone else operates illegally.

For sure, ill be there with a shotgun too.

I know you will disagree, but that's a completely different topic in a different world all together.

Getting a coworker fired thats getting promoted by getting 3 pals together and making HR statements that the guy was going to blow the building up and kill a manager(real life, happened to me---)

Person who made the statements took my promotion. Now thats just some straight up garbage. I sued for wrongful termination of course and called the cops, they were more than glad to investigate since I was "dangerous". All false statements, the "pals" are charged with slander, and ive got a huge lawsuit going.

In sports would be like the Saints.

I wouldnt care if it was within the rules technically or not. they put Kurt Warner, Brett Favre(yeh he made it to the next season and maybe would have played his heart out if the team was winning, but he was done basically), and Peyton Manning out on purpose to win.

Then they thought it was funny. Comments came from the Saints locker from Sean Peytom about putting the old man in a wheel chair-- referring to Brett Favre.

See thats how murders happen. Its not right, but I would have understood.

Putting air in a football thats going to cool off---- no one got hurt. Some think its cheating, a few think its smart. If it didnt break any rules technically then other teams are free to do it too therefore its not an unfair advantage.

Hence not cheating. Again only if the rules were not broken. If the rules were technically broken then its an unfair advantage even if the views of the advantages are subjective.

This is all a different subject as to why its even a rule to be broken. Just make a uniform rule that each team can do what they want with the footballs.

Or have the league have 20 footballs for the game and the officials pass them out on the field.

[run1stdownrun2nddown]

Wrong again. I've spent years on personal reflection to be as unbiased as possible. you'd be surprised how approaching every argument or problem while being completely objective will get you much farther ahead in life. Upon this reflection I've substituted the Patriots with another team, the titans, a team I am completely indifferent to. The result (my opinion) was the same. Cheating is cheating and the team should lose draft pick/s.

You admitting to being biased makes your argument even that much worse, which is saying a lot as it was pretty terrible to begin with.

 

x10000000

 

Can't believe someone actually is aware of the fact they are allowing themselves to be biased, and are OK with that.

 

I'd rather punch myself in the face.

[rodeo]

The fact that you think you're unbiased is fuging hilarious.

[gettlemanjack]

[gettlemanjack]

[rodeo]

Hey all you unbiased fellas. Yet more evidence the story is bullshit.

 

Only one ball was 2 psi under the limit, not a uniform 2 psi for all 11 balls like has been reported all along by ESPN. Most balls were just a small tick under 12.5, very much within range of temperature change affecting it.
 

"Eleven of the 12 footballs used in the first half were judged by the officials to be under the minimum of 12.5 PSI, but just one was two pounds under. Many of them were just a few ticks under the minimum."

 

http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000466783/article/more-details-on-the-investigation-of-patriots-deflated-footballs

 

 

[JARROD]

Its a story created by the media spin machine and made larger by the hate of a perennial winner.  If this was the Titans, it would have been a Yahoo story at the bottom of the scroll down,..lost in space in about a day.

 

Having little facts out there, just use news headlines to stir the pot, tingle the sensationalism and extreme bias people have and BOOM, everyone makes the media money by watching ESPN and listening to talk radio.

 

Remember Max from the Natural?  Players come and go but makes goats or heros out of them as great stories.  They dont care what the truth is, just how much attention a story will bring.

 

I dont hate the media, no more than someone should hate drug dealers, pimps, or online porn companies for being capitalists-- they are just making money off of everyone elses bias and self destruction.

 

Ill get off my soapbox now.   

[Mr. Scot]

Hey all you unbiased fellas. Yet more evidence the story is bullshit.

Only one ball was 2 psi under the limit, not a uniform 2 psi for all 11 balls like has been reported all along by ESPN. Most balls were just a small tick under 12.5, very much within range of temperature change affecting it.

That doesn't actually prove anything like what you're saying. Plus you left out all the other points raised.

[Mr. Scot]

Its a story created by the media spin machine and made larger by the hate of a perennial winner. If this was the Titans, it would have been a Yahoo story at the bottom of the scroll down,..lost in space in about a day.

Having little facts out there, just use news headlines to stir the pot, tingle the sensationalism and extreme bias people have and BOOM, everyone makes the media money by watching ESPN and listening to talk radio.

Remember Max from the Natural? Players come and go but makes goats or heros out of them as great stories. They dont care what the truth is, just how much attention a story will bring.

I dont hate the media, no more than someone should hate drug dealers, pimps, or online porn companies for being capitalists-- they are just making money off of everyone elses bias and self destruction.

Ill get off my soapbox now.

Well then nobody would bother investigating a losing team like the Falcons, right?

[MHS831]

1982--the Snowplow FG game vs. Miami.  (not familiar? Google it)

2003 and later--Spygate

2015-Inflate gate

 

Nah, there is no culture of trying to gain an unfair advantage by bending rules and breaking codes of ethics.  It was all atmospheric conditions. 

[rodeo]

That doesn't actually prove anything like what you're saying. Plus you left out all the other points raised.

 

I didn't say it proves anything, yet it contradicts the story that has been repeated by ESPN for the past 2 weeks, and therefor lends credence to my hypothesis that the story is bullshit.

 

"11 of 12 balls were deflated by 2 psi" is extremely different than "11 of 12 balls were deflated by various margins, most statistically insignificant."