Deflate-Gate: Patriots Being Investigated For Deflated Footballs

[Cary Kollins]

No, my colon

 

 

[rodeo]

I guess I can only say what I have seen over the years, and I have never seen the ball boys carry bags of footballs anywhere near a bathroom.

 

And its not a typical stadium bathroom you guys are used to. Its a door with a lock and one toilet. I was in that very same bathroom in August.

 

Absolutely 0 reason why anyone would take those balls in there unless it was something that he didn't want anyone to see. (lock on door, no cameras).

 

There should be no situation where a Pats attendant has all 24 balls in the first place. This person was either a ref/official or there was a serious breakdown in the chain of custody. The Colts' balls go from the Colts, to the ref, to the ball official, to the Colts' ball boy, to the equipment manager, and back to the refs. They don't go to the Patriots.

[rodeo]

What I don't get and the question (I don't think) anyone has asked yet--Why would a lone attendant carrying 24 footballs in 2 bags stop at the rest room?  Would he not go to the restroom when he wasn't loaded down with footballs, a period that I do not imagine was to be a prolonged situation? WHen they said he did not have enough time to alter the balls (90 seconds), does that rule out that he already had a bag of altered balls in the restroom and simply switched them? The restroom is one place where there are no cameras--surely they know that.   I am not asking if it was probable, I am asking if it is possible.  Heck, that is how I would do it if I was going to play with illegal footballs.  2 identical bags, one to the refs that the Pats never intended to play with, the other doctored, placed in the men's room where a quick switch was easily possible.

 

Before you dismiss this idea, remember that he filmed other teams' signals and exhibits no remorse.  Remember that Goodell (buddy and employee of Kraft) destroyed the notes and videos after his investigation into that matter, and never gave a reason for doing so.  Remember Hurney's comments.

 

Yes, this is a conspiracy theory based on facts presented.  However, no alternative theory explains to me how the Colt's footballs, that underwent identical treatment, were all in compliance.  If the Patriots didn't have a history of accusations for cheating and underhanded maneuvering, then maybe they get a pass on this one--but this is the same team, same coach, etc.  that cheated before.  They deserve this scrutiny, innocent or not.

 

Every team has a history of filming teams' signals, because it's still legal to film them, just not from the sidelines. You can film from the stands perfectly fine. The Patriots filmed from the sidelines a few weeks longer than other teams. Wow!!!!!! Such cheat!

 

Also there have been several alternative theories why the Colts' balls were not deflated.

 

1. They inflated their balls to the maximum limit, so when the temperature affected the inflation, it stayed within the legal allowance.

 

2. They were the visiting team, therefore there balls were mostly outside, be it in a plane cargo area and then with the equipment manager on the field. The Pats were the home team so their balls stayed inside the warm offices for the week before the game.

 

Two very simple reasons for what could have happened.

 

[Hawk]

so rodeo...what are your thoughts on Brady's comment that he couldn't tell that the balls were deflated and your thoughts on Bellichek saying he didn't know the pre game ball selection process etc?

 

serious questions...not trying to stir the poop

[rodeo]

so rodeo...what are your thoughts on Brady's comment that he couldn't tell that the balls were deflated and your thoughts on Bellichek saying he didn't know the pre game ball selection process etc?

 

serious questions...not trying to stir the poop

 

Joe Theisman also said he couldn't tell the difference when he ran a test. 2 psi comes to 1 millimeter of size. Look at a ruler and see how big 1 millimeter is and think about if you could tell if a football was that much smaller in your hand.The refs obviously couldn't tell either because they were handling them all game. I think these people like Brunell and Betis who toss each other balls on ESPN and immediately say "Oh that's definitely 11 psi I can totally tell" and then break down into tears are full of poo.

 

I have no idea about Bellichek. I could buy him not giving a poo about the equipment. I could also buy that he orchestrated it all and really did deflate balls.

[Jase]

I just want to remind everyone again.

1. air compresses.

2. Temperature could only account for 0.5 psi at the most in this situation.

[Hawk]

Joe Theisman also said he couldn't tell the difference when he ran a test. 2 psi comes to 1 millimeter of size. Look at a ruler and see how big 1 millimeter is and think about if you could tell if a football was that much smaller in your hand.The refs obviously couldn't tell either because they were handling them all game. I think these people like Brunell and Betis who toss each other balls on ESPN and immediately say "Oh that's definitely 11 psi I can totally tell" and then break down into tears are full of poo.

 

I have no idea about Bellichek. I could buy him not giving a poo about the equipment. I could also buy that he orchestrated it all and really did deflate balls.

 

thanks for your reponse

 

as for the balls and Joe...I think more importantly than the size of the ball changing by 1mm....maybe...won't argue that....I have a hard time believing that it wouldn't feel a whole lot different to the guy dropping back to throw it...I'm thinking there is a substantial squeezability difference....no?

[JARROD]

One, your link doesn't actually say what you claim it does (were you figuring no one would check it out?)

 

And two, the people who actually manufacture the footballs say the Pats explanation is bulls--t.

 

Wilson: Patriots explanation is BS

 

You are right, the article didnt go into the detail the actual video did, and the author summarizing obviously left out the key details.

 

 

So your comments are deserving of course, I should have read the synopsis with more scrutiny instead of skimming.  My question here would be, what was the true advantage?  If there truly is an increased ball security that can be proven maybe. But the disadvantages of the lower velocity for example, while maybe easier to catch a bullet, make it more difficult to get a ball on target accurately.  The Patriots run a synchronized thrown open type of offense so this would mess with timing routes. 

 

 

And look, Im not in the air of did they do it or not. Of course they would have to pull out some mad proof at this point for anyone to drop the subject.

 

All Ive been getting at, is the media is having a field day putting out a lot of speculation when none of us have gotten to see the true facts.  Im a total innocent and proven guilty kind of guy, regardless of who it is first.  Second, as smart as these guys are, I look for the ways they circumvented the rules to come out which will exonerate any rule breaking, even if the outcome was the same.

 

If it comes out with proof(and I mean real proof-- Brady crying while hes begging for forgiveness or a camera or something real) that they just deflated balls, exchanged them as a prior post said above,... whatever,.

 

 

Then forget about just the punishment, my second as above is respecting a track record of doing things smart. This would be RETARDED.  At that point I would lose all respect.  You know you are under scrutiny constantly.  You are on top of space mountain and people want a piece of you to prove they are not losers so you go and do something totally stupid like this?  

 

So I look for it to come out at some point that they put warm air in the balls at 12.5 PSI.  There is no rule saying the PSI has to be there at a certain temperature, or what temperature the air inflating them was. 

 

Ref checks, balls check out, then they cool off,...boom 10.5 PSI.  Everyone still pissed off, but no rule broken technically and therefore not guilty--  

 

Thats smart just like the crazy formations or running around an endzone to run a clock out. No rule against it. 

 

So thats me-- hate if you want to.  I am a Patriot hater-- but a fan of getting over on rules without technically breaking them.  Thats the attorney in me.

[MHS831]

Where do they NOT have cameras in the stadium (required since 9/11)?  Bathrooms.  Where does the Patriot equipment personnel take 24 footballs in 2 bags?  The bathroom.  How long was he probably carrying the balls from the inspection area to the field?  I am guessing 10 minutes at the most.  If you were going to pee, would it be when you had a task that required carrying 2 large sacks or would you go before or after that task?  If 90 seconds is not enough time to deflate 11 footballs, is it enough time to switch the Patriots' bag with one hidden in the bathroom? 

 

Bill B. is still lying about Spygate because Goodell covered the tracks by destroying the evidence over a 2-week period following his "investigation."  Remember, he is friends with Kraft, his employee, and he is determined to preserve the integrity of the game.  So he fined BB for what was already known, and he probably destroyed evidence that was not, because he has said many times that he will "protect the shield." 

 

So we are mistaken when we assume that a judicial process is underway.  A business process is underway.  BB feels certain that no confession and no visual evidence = innocence. He might be right.  Goodell has been hammered this year and will not make a strong stand.  He is looking for an out, not the truth. Richard Sherman knows it, which is why he said what he said.

 

Finally, the Patriots do not have to explain why the other 12 balls the Pats employee handed were not out of compliance, but if they offer explanations that include things like temperature and pre-game handling, they are operating on the assumption that the Colts do not do the same thing (maybe aware that they are an indoor team and there practice balls are never in the elements).  However, the 12 balls in the Colts bag were regulation, and nearly all of the Patriots balls were not.  They were in the same place at the same time, in the same weather, in the same game.  So instead of filling us with a bunch of science crap (the video above assumes that weight and throwing velocity are the variables that would benefit Brady, but that is presumptuous.  The Hall of Fame QB's grip was the reason the balls were under-inflated.  To prevent turnovers.  Remember the time he was saved vs. Oakland in the "Tuck Rule" game? 

 

Heck, defending Marty Hurney's comment about the culture of cheating in New England--they have a storied history of finding ways to gain an unfair advantage.  It was New England vs. Miami in 1982 when the ex con cleared snow off the field in Foxboro so the kicker could get footing.  The Pats won 3-0.  Filming signals and walk throughs in spy gate 20 years later, found with underinflated balls that improve grip 12 years after that when playing in a quagmire....Do you think these are exceptions or tips of the ice berg?  Since there is nobody officiating the ethical practices of teams, The Pats know by now that you can twist the rules and bend the truth to win games and play stupid when caught.  It is a culture.

 

Mr. Kraft should get no apology even if they cannot prove guilt.  That is an arrogant rich man showing how out of touch he is with reality.  He is playing the media to win support.  I hope it has been a distraction this week and last.  I hope Bill is shut out and loses 53-0 because the Seahawks found a loop hole in the rule book. 

[Mr. Scot]

Sal Paolantonio characterized Kraft's statement as reminding Goodell who he works for.

 

Florio pointed out something about the standard being met here.  The thing about the NFL is that, thanks to the way things are set up, they don't have to meet the kind of standard you would in court.  Sufficient evidence to believe something happened is enough for Goodell to inflict penalties.

 

Not only is there plenty of evidence here, but we're talking about an organization that already has a history.  Throw in stuff like how visitor's headsets and radio equipment have an odd habit of messing up whenever there's a close game at Gillette Stadium.

 

Stuff like this is why I always chuckle when people talk about how great the Patriots and Belichick are.

 

If they were really as far ahead as they're hyped to be, they wouldn't need to cheat.

[rodeo]

Fire alarm has gone off in the middle of the night at the Patriots' hotel 2 out of the last 3 nights. Can you imagine if that happened at the hotel the Seahawks were at?

 

Alarmgate! The NFL has zeroed in on a Patriots maid as a person of interest in this investigation. Let's go now to Mark Brunell on the set.

 

*tears streaming down his face*

 

"I have *sniff* survived many fire alarms *sniff* and there is no way that this could happen without Tom Brady knowing. *sniff* I am so disappointed."

[dos poptarts]

...

 

So I look for it to come out at some point that they put warm air in the balls at 12.5 PSI.  There is no rule saying the PSI has to be there at a certain temperature, or what temperature the air inflating them was. 

 

Ref checks, balls check out, then they cool off,...boom 10.5 PSI.  Everyone still pissed off, but no rule broken technically and therefore not guilty--  

 

Thats smart just like the crazy formations or running around an endzone to run a clock out. No rule against it. 

 

I don't this comparison is the same. The eligible vs non-eligible declaration is gamesmanship. Completely legal. I could see the rules committee rule on this tactic (maybe allow defensive substitutions even if the offense did not, but the offense did have players change declaration before allowing the snap to occur) No hurry up offense if players are changing declarations while staying on the field. Dunno.

 

In your example of filling up with hot air at the minimum PSI violates the rule even if this specific process is not spelled out. You know that the ball would lose quite a bit PSI to go below the minimum during the course of the game. If the balls had just been .5 PSI lower to 12 PSI total using room temp air, then this story would be dead. You'd still have detractors out there, but to use a loophole because the rule didn't spell out every single possibility is still a violation.

[cgarsmoker]

Second, as smart as these guys are, I look for the ways they circumvented the rules to come out which will exonerate any rule breaking, even if the outcome was the same.

Then forget about just the punishment, my second as above is respecting a track record of doing things smart. This would be RETARDED. At that point I would lose all respect. You know you are under scrutiny constantly.

Everyone still pissed off, but no rule broken technically and therefore not guilty--

Thats smart just like the crazy formations or running around an endzone to run a clock out. No rule against it.

So thats me-- hate if you want to. I am a Patriot hater-- but a fan of getting over on rules without technically breaking them. Thats the attorney in me.

I guess these comments are my biggest fundamental difference you and I. You think circumventing the rules and finding ways to cheat without getting caught make you smart. I think it makes you an A**hole with no integrity, that can never be trusted, will never be respected, and basically a miserable human being.

[Jangler]

form SW The Clone Wars S1E12