If Cam threw 4 interceptions in a game...

[Peppers90 NC]

How in the world Wilson gets credit for this escapes me, the objective knowledge of "fans" is very lacking when after watching that they can heap praise on Wilson.

I didn't give credit to Wilson at all. I'll say it again, Green Bay played Foxball on offense. They played not to lose and they lost. Wilson made a few plays at the end. I really don't know what point you're trying to make or why you are quoting me at this juncture.

[saints4life25]

This shits still going on????

[tiger7_88]

I read something this morning on cat scratch reader that had a similar message to it. I see both sides of the argument, but my opinion lies in the shades of grey.

For 55 minutes, Wilson had a terrible game. Then he proceed to make plays when given the chance.

Is there a particular reason he didn't avail himself of the "chance" in those first 55 minutes?

Was someone preventing him from taking that "chance" then?

[MedellinHeel]

i'm not talking about that. Dude literally said RW is smarter than Cam at the QB position by showing he graduated with a COMMUNICATIONS degree in 3 years and was taking masters classes.

 

All signs point to Cam being a better pocket passer at this point. I've watched RW whenever it doesn't go against the panthers and RW is not a legit pocket passer

 

You are implying Cam is more football smart and a better pocket passer than Wilson. 

 

People that can read defenses better have fewer ints (progressing through reads and not throwing into coverage) and a higher completion % (progress through read and make a pass that the WR can catch)

 

So again I ask, you had fewer ints and a higher completion %?  

[CollegePanther]

What in the hell went on in this thread? 

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

Hyperbole and missing the point comes easy for you doesn't it?

 

none of your posts have a discernible point as far as i can tell so that's moot.

 

here are my problems with your original post:

 

This is why we are a losing franchise.

We are arguing which qb is getting the proper football street cred. Trophies don't mean anything to some here. Perception and is the national media giving someone proper credit or blame.

 

this is absolute unfiltered bullshit pstall.

 

really?  what fans argue about when it comes to our starting quarterback are why we're a losing franchise?

 

it's really not due to years of bad drafting, sending off picks for the likes of everette brown and armanti edwards, or any number of questionable coaching decisions from the current and previous regimes?  upper management problems in general?  none of the failed free agency signings or draft day decisions are a bigger factor than what fans talk about on the internet?

 

no, that's not why we're a losing franchise.  because fans don't make actual football decisions.

 

Unbelievable.

look at some other NFL forums some time, particularly those that have lightning rod quarterbacks

 

To paraphrase the great poet Allen Iverson. Perception?

We ain't talking about wins. We talkin bout perception.

 

irrelevant white noise

 

I don't care if Cam gets another commercial or if Skip Bayless thinks he is any good.

Just friggin win. That's all that matters.

 

yeah excellent points coach.

 

the NFL is so media-driven and has been for such a long time (well before fantasy football ruined everything as per the inane point you made earlier) that it's only natural that the opinions of the talking heads are going to influence things against the best wishes of everyone else.  i don't think anyone would actually care very much in a vacuum, honestly.  the real problem is the audience a media personality has.  you want to know why that's significant?  because there are millions of people who follow football who will be influenced by them and it's far more likely any given one of us is going to encounter some idiot who draws everything he knows about cam newton or the panthers verbatim from that jackass than we'll ever actually encounter skip bayless himself.  i mean think about it-why do you even know who he is if he absolutely doesn't matter?

 

and to touch on another topic you keep bringing up, so the fug what if people want to discuss stats or compare this or that player so long as they do it intelligently?  guess what: statistics are one of the few quantifiable things out there that can be used to judge a player's performance.  that's part of how you form a nuanced, informed opinion and that's my problem with people like you who harp on "all that matters is wins" and other cliches.  yeah no poo that may be ultimately true but what does that sentiment have to do with the best way to get there?  how do the teams that win so much actually do it?  russell wilson's completion percentage and TD/INT ratio is useful to know when taken in context with the offensive system the seahawks run which gives us something to chew on and is substantially more valuable than banal drivel like "russell wilson is a winner and comes through in the clutch".  

 

i think you're massively exaggerating the number of people who really, truly care a lot about what cam is doing in the media too.  let alone the number of people who care more about that than watching the panthers win a super bowl.  it's really easy to make a thread and post some blurb about the most popular player on our team shooting a yogurt commercial and you're seemingly confused about how much effort people on this site put into that.  it's 100% harmless for fans to discuss those topics and if it's really such a problem for you you can always close your account.

[The NFL Shield At Midfield]

Who are Seattles weapons again? I would take our Benjamin and Olsen and our line over theirs every day. In reality, GB allowed Seattle to have 4 turnovers and still win. RW made a couple plays at the end, and other than Lynch it had nothing to do with superior talent. GB played that game as conservative as possible where they usually attack defenses. It was pathetic and Pete Carrol owns McCarthy like the Yanks owned Pedro.

 

what you have to consider with the "weapons" discussion is that seattle runs a different scheme than the panthers and they ask different things of their wideouts and tight ends than we do.  smart wide receivers who have mastered the system and have a good rapport with the quarterback are just as valuable if not more so than physical freaks with great vertical speed in a west coast system.  kearse and baldwin fit that to a tee.  lynch's power running and the read option wrinkles in that offense are also an excellent complement to those receivers because that helps to pull the linebackers in and makes play action so effective when they do decide to take shots downfield.

 

the panthers run a coryell and that's a system that really needs a deep threat with great vertical speed to really work the way it's supposed to.  that's something we didn't really have in 2014 outside of one UDFA rookie.  benjamin might become a serious number one receiver some day soon but he wasn't much of a threat to stretch the defense as a rookie.

[TheRumGone]

You are implying Cam is more football smart and a better pocket passer than Wilson.

People that can read defenses better have fewer ints (progressing through reads and not throwing into coverage) and a higher completion % (progress through read and make a pass that the WR can catch)

So again I ask, you had fewer ints and a higher completion %?

You are speaking as if wilson is asked to do the same things as cam. our system vs seahawks system. Russell is better at his system than cam is with his at this stage in their careers. But if you actually look at what RW is ask to do as a pocket passer compared to cam.

I.e. There's no read when RW scrambles out of the pocket and the reciever finds the open space for RW to throw to compared to cam sitting in the pocket going through prigressions, checking off safeties and delivering the ball.

RW is better than cam only because he has mastered his system better than cam has. Does not mean RW is a better pocket passer or has a higher iq when the majority of RW passes come from plays that have broken down or quick drop 1st read throws

[TheRumGone]

Why do you think people say RW is the best qb out of the pocket minus arod?

[MedellinHeel]

You are speaking as if wilson is asked to do the same things as cam. our system vs seahawks system. Russell is better at his system than cam is with his at this stage in their careers. But if you actually look at what RW is ask to do as a pocket passer compared to cam.

I.e. There's no read when RW scrambles out of the pocket and the reciever finds the open space for RW to throw to compared to cam sitting in the pocket going through prigressions, checking off safeties and delivering the ball.

RW is better than cam only because he has mastered his system better than cam has. Does not mean RW is a better pocket passer or has a higher iq when the majority of RW passes come from plays that have broken down or quick drop 1st read throws

 

No matter what system you are in, will be and are asked to throw the ball and make reads (nearly every pass play has more than one read). 

 

You speak as though RW scrambles out the pocket more than he is in the pocket. How many times did Cam scramble outside the pocket compared to RW when we played them? 

 

RW is better than Cam because he simply has a better feel for the game. RW is a mater at pocket awareness. RW is also quite accurate as a passer. RW is smart and rarely makes more boneheaded plays than his counterparts. 

 

It is harder to complete your passes when you are only making one read. Defenses usually take away the primary read. 

 

Every offense requires QBs to go through progressions and make reads. 

 

Now, with all that said, RW has a better OC who gives him easier passes and progressions. I can't hold that against him though. You can only go out their and execute plays. 

 

At this stage in the game, RW is the better QB, regardless of circumstances. Can Cam catch RW and even surpass him? Sure. I would prob not bet the farm on that happening tbt. RW is a special player. As a UNC fan, I learned this first hand watching him work magic against my heels. 

[pstall]

none of your posts have a discernible point as far as i can tell so that's moot.

here are my problems with your original post:

this is absolute unfiltered bullshit pstall.

really? what fans argue about when it comes to our starting quarterback are why we're a losing franchise?

it's really not due to years of bad drafting, sending off picks for the likes of everette brown and armanti edwards, or any number of questionable coaching decisions from the current and previous regimes? upper management problems in general? none of the failed free agency signings or draft day decisions are a bigger factor than what fans talk about on the internet?

no, that's not why we're a losing franchise. because fans don't make actual football decisions.

look at some other NFL forums some time, particularly those that have lightning rod quarterbacks

irrelevant white noise

yeah excellent points coach.

the NFL is so media-driven and has been for such a long time (well before fantasy football ruined everything as per the inane point you made earlier) that it's only natural that the opinions of the talking heads are going to influence things against the best wishes of everyone else. i don't think anyone would actually care very much in a vacuum, honestly. the real problem is the audience a media personality has. you want to know why that's significant? because there are millions of people who follow football who will be influenced by them and it's far more likely any given one of us is going to encounter some idiot who draws everything he knows about cam newton or the panthers verbatim from that jackass than we'll ever actually encounter skip bayless himself. i mean think about it-why do you even know who he is if he absolutely doesn't matter?

and to touch on another topic you keep bringing up, so the fug what if people want to discuss stats or compare this or that player so long as they do it intelligently? guess what: statistics are one of the few quantifiable things out there that can be used to judge a player's performance. that's part of how you form a nuanced, informed opinion and that's my problem with people like you who harp on "all that matters is wins" and other cliches. yeah no poo that may be ultimately true but what does that sentiment have to do with the best way to get there? how do the teams that win so much actually do it? russell wilson's completion percentage and TD/INT ratio is useful to know when taken in context with the offensive system the seahawks run which gives us something to chew on and is substantially more valuable than banal drivel like "russell wilson is a winner and comes through in the clutch".

i think you're massively exaggerating the number of people who really, truly care a lot about what cam is doing in the media too. let alone the number of people who care more about that than watching the panthers win a super bowl. it's really easy to make a thread and post some blurb about the most popular player on our team shooting a yogurt commercial and you're seemingly confused about how much effort people on this site put into that. it's 100% harmless for fans to discuss those topics and if it's really such a problem for you you can always close your account.

Excellent effort over something so trivial.

Close my account? Dad is that you?

Here's the deal multiple user name guy.

Hyperbole is an exaggeration to illuminate a point of the idiocy that is at play. Which like a brave warrior you keep fighting against.

Of course the fans don't make football decisions. We have zero impact on the outcome of a game. Unless your last name is Gartman.

A few posts back you made the better point about the scheme that the Seahawks run. That's significantly better. The irony or maybe sadness is you are somehow thinking most of what I'm saying is geared towards you. Quite the contrary.

I'm trying to save some guys time and consternation and possibly their hairline about constantly setting themselves up for frustration. Are we rational as fans? Well not often. But the low lying fruit of impossible hypothetical can't be avoided.

We don't have the Seahawks d but we are second best the last few weeks. Not bad.

Let me state this so you can put down your board sword. We are a mediocre franchise due to the front office but that is changing nicely with Gentleman.

I love stats and quantitative analysis and trends and the moneyball aspects that are more and more popular. That has more merit and more watercolor juice than yeab but if we had this wr or that o line or if Emmit Smith was only 21.

We as fans don't effect the outcome of the game or this. The media's megaphone. Sorry to break that to you.

The team takes a deeper step each year. This time next year I fully expect us to be in or past the NFC champ game.

I also expect to be posting and saying my take no matter how unpopular or misunderstood or even wrong I may be which I can easilu admit when I am.

If you can't handle that I suggest you engage the ignore option at your leisure.