The Shula hate is overblown.

[FootballMaestro]

He's what I don't buy. I don't buy that Ron is keeping Shula (and Rogers) around because he's too emotional connected and friendly to fire them. Ron's life and livelihood is on the line, if he's fired his family is uprooted and he may never get another head coaching gig again.

No. Loyalty doesn't override the welfare of your family and your future. If Ron keeps Shula it's because he really believes that he can get the job done. The question is, after two years, why does he believe this? Who's blind here? Us or him? Or could it be that he has such low expectations for the offense that as long as it puts up 20 points a game he's satisfied, and then puts the burden on the defense to hold the opponent under 20. And if it is the latter, how much would really change with a new O coordinator?

 

Yeah. But some people, for whatever reason never display enough sense, guts or understanding of their situation to make the right move. And Rivera seems like a clear example of that regarding this, and other concerns.

[pepaw]

That is fair, I don't expect to be popular when I take the opposite side of what is popular here. And for what it is worth I am not always crazy about what Shula does or think we couldn't do better honestly. I was glad he was retained in 2013 because I feared Cam would regress learning a new system or being treated like Kaepernick in San Fran. But I could move on and be happy with someone else. I just defend him when I fel he is being attacked unfairly with no facts to support it. As the attacks became more negative and in my mind unwarranted, so did my defense. It is how I roll. I don't like seeing people attacked without proof and am usually on the side of the underdog. That is how I saw him this year and that is why I defended him.

 

 

Fair enough, but if you try to call out every irrational attack on this board you will exhaust yourself. 

[FootballMaestro]

You don't actually watch games, do you?

 

in 2011, chud ran a classic air coryell for most of the season. it requires a power running game (more on that in a bit) and we were the first team in the history of the nfl to have three rushers hit the 700 yard mark. run game was clicking. it set up all the beautiful downfield throws to smitty. if naanee had any talent whatsoever, we could have easily finished .500 or better. towards the end of the season, chud started mixing in the zone read and read option.

 

neither the coryell nor the read option were exactly ground breaking

 

 

What happened in 2012 that could have led to a drop in scoring?

 

1 - ryan kalil, you know, that all-pro center.... he was on IR

 

2 - chud installed the read option as our base offense. **that's why he was full retard** remember rushing for negative yardage in week 1?  (important in running chud's offense... remember my point above?) if the saints hadn't had the worst defense in history, we probably would have started that season 1-9 instead of 2-8. you can't run the coryell without a running game. the read option base offense will not give you the running game chud needed.

 

3 - we replaced jeremy shockey, who was known for his hands but was a very good blocking tight end, with mike tolbert.

 

4 - we returned to the pro-style offense in the second half of the season. look at the difference in scoring between the first half of the season and the second half.

 

5- stewart missed half the season.

 

6 - louis murphy started 5 games

 

7 - we had the hardest schedule in the nfl that year

 

 in year 1 with Shula, subtract the defensive touchdowns. we then fall to 23rd in OFFENSIVE scoring

 

All true sir.

 

So many people forget all this (2011-2012 regarding Chud, Cam and the offense).

 

Yup! Cam was a downfield passer out of the pocket, Under Center, or the Shot gun when he waltzed into the NFL in 2011. The run game, actually developed off the passing game, until later in the season when the two were mixed or interchanged.

 

In 2012, Chud went full retard with the read option, negatively effecting the offense and Cam, till Hurney's firing, then it was pull backed by Rivera, presumably out of fear for his job. That is true indeed!

 

[bLACKpANTHER]

3rd

 

and

 

10

 

screen

 

to

 

bren

 

ton

 

ber

 

sin

 

 

[top dawg]

There are also well thought out and informed posts on this board from a litany of people on why so many believe Shula is a bad OC. Some of which from Igo and other high quality posters on here.

So many posts about Shula and there are well researched points on both sides. The difference is how each person interprets the information. Don't say all the people who say Shula is bad are ill informed, a lot of us are well informed and have over the course of the seasons layout why we believe what we do.

After a while you get tired of showing the same facts and information. Two sides of the argument exist and the facts people show support their side of the argument only.

So we disagree, stop belittling someone else's point because you disagree. It makes you look foolish.

Don't waste your time. I have had basically the same conversation with him.

[FootballMaestro]

Why keep a coordinator who gets no interest for HC jobs among the rest of the NFL. Even the really bad teams.

 

Also, Shula's game plans are way too predictable. He plays to an offenses weaknesses and does not adjust his offense to the teams strengths. Very stubborn. I can go into his issues with understanding probabilities of certain plays and players in certain situations.

 

Shula has a cookie cutter game plan. The good coaches know it and attack it. He uses his star players as decoys in the first half and goes to the scrubs. He then relies on his star players in the second half. Seattle this year and San Fran last year figured this out easily and rolled coverage to the likes of Brandon LaFell last season, and Philly Brown this season in the first half of the game. Seattle was sitting on Philly in the first half, and you can see it.

 

Shula also loves to go for the long drives, and he will run a long drive after a long drive. Well, any intelligent coach knows if you have a long drive while you are trailing in the second half and come away without any points, then you need to adjust and run quick scoring drives to get back in the game without running out the clock. He never counters his offenses failures. Instead he compounds the failures by putting players in a bad position.

 

The players not only have to beat the defense, they have to battle through their coaching as well.

 

4th and 1 QB Power. Really? Does he not know the success rate of Newton with a QB sneak under center when there is 2 yards or less to gain? He does this consistently and shows a failure to be able to adjust. He also thinks he can play mind games in the red zone with some of the better defensive minds in he game. Just put it on your top players shoulders to get the TD. Stop going to the lesser talent on the team in the red zone like Philly, Fozzy, Cotchery, Avant and Dickson. Last season it was LaFell and Ginn. There is a reason Cam, Stewart, Tolbert, DeAngelo, Olsen, and KB get paid. Let them earn their money.

 

You see other offenses go to their top players and trust in them to make the plays. They know when to take the chances, and they know who to go to in the red zone.

 

Yeah. Shula needs to go. The Panthers need someone who knows how to attack a defense and not play keep away while hoping for the best.

 

Amen Bros (to this, and the rest of your post)!!

[Udogg]

 

 

 

Like this I wonder, is it he called this play specifically for Bersin or was it he called the play and Philly was hurt/tired and Bersin was who was left? 

 

I watch other teams do this in situation and convert because they have quick speedy WR with the ability to convert in these situations.  Lets not kid ourselves, Bersin wouldn't even be on the roster of any of the playoff teams other than us.

 

It's hard for me personally to put huge amounts of blame on Shula when I see all the mistakes on the field.  The miss throws/reads by Cam, the drops, the lack of seperation, the Byron Bell, Chandler, Silatolu pu pu platter...  I want to blame Shula but honestly really what was he going to get out of this offense?

[bLACKpANTHER]

Like this I wonder, is it he called this play specifically for Bersin or was it he called the play and Philly was hurt/tired and Bersin was who was left? 

 

I watch other teams do this in situation and convert because they have quick speedy WR with the ability to convert in these situations.  Lets not kid ourselves, Bersin wouldn't even be on the roster of any of the playoff teams other than us.

 

It's hard for me personally to put huge amounts of blame on Shula when I see all the mistakes on the field.  The miss throws/reads by Cam, the drops, the lack of seperation, the Byron Bell, Chandler, Silatolu pu pu platter...  I want to blame Shula but honestly really what was he going to get out of this offense?

 

i agree that that play call was going to be for Philly, but he got hurt and Bersin replaced him on that route.. but c'mon.. you have to know that your personnel one that play doomed it from the start. Bersin can't get off the jam or create the space Philly could.. so why even call that play on a key 3rd down?

[@bonafidebanter]

Bersin can be the next Cole Beasly

[Cpt slay a ho]

I'll just ask wtf kind of offense did you guys expect from Shula when we didn't have a o line or wrs

And I dare someone to say more quick passes

[Panthers8969]

I really don't care about stats. I've seen with my own eyes that Shula is incompetent.

3&26? Rb screen!

[updownsigma]

I went back and watched some of Cams first few NFL games recently. It's funny because his mechanics were actually awful then, worse than they are now. Don't know if he looked so impressive then because of other teams not having film on him, a better offensive system, or more offensive talent. In reality it's probably all 3, but it's odd that I'd never noticed how shaky his mechanics were back then

[SmokinwithWilly]

That has nothing to do with the fact he improved on offense despite all the injuries and terrible personnel.

Him getting another job elsewhere means nothing except to switch the conversation.

You're right, he improved. He went from completely inept to only partially inept. 

[PhillyB]

shula is a below average coordinator who will make an above-average team look average. we can win with him, but we can also do much better.