Realistically, what is the future of Shula?

[TheRed]

I don't see Ron firing Shula, not unless his hand is forced.

 

If I were Gettleman, I would be evaluating both Shula, and Dorsey, whether Ron likes it or not.

 

To a further point though, no matter who our OC is, we have got to fix these drops from our receivers. It's gotten really bad.

[tiger7_88]

Unfortunately, I don't think Shula is going anywhere.

Why?

Because unlike what most people think, this isn't Shula's offense... its RIVERA'S offense. What we've been doing on offense for 2 years now is EXACTLY what the Head Coach is most comfortable in doing on offense.

When one is finally fired, so will the other. They are sympatico... attached at the hip.

The offense you saw in 2013 and 2014? Be prepared because you're going to be seeing more of it in 2015.

[Nick_81]

I don't see Ron firing Shula, not unless his hand is forced.

 

If I were Gettleman, I would be evaluating both Shula, and Dorsey, whether Ron likes it or not.

 

To a further point though, no matter who our OC is, we have got to fix these drops from our receivers. It's gotten really bad.

I agree.  If you're a GM, and you want a team that's going to consistently compete, and win, you can't just stop with the players.  Even if you do like the HC you have, you should be evaluating his staff with him.

[cgarsmoker]

I don't think Shula gets canned but I'm not impressed with him at all. Why do we have to lose 6 games in a row before he figures out Cam is better going up tempo and needs to start fast?

[FootballMaestro]

Unfortunately, I don't think Shula is going anywhere.

Why?

Because unlike what most people think, this isn't Shula's offense... its RIVERA'S offense. What we've been doing on offense for 2 years now is EXACTLY what the Head Coach is most comfortable in doing on offense.

When one is finally fired, so will the other. They are sympatico... attached at the hip.

The offense you saw in 2013 and 2014? Be prepared because you're going to be seeing more of it in 2015.

 

Lawd, please no.

 

If that's the case, fire Rivera now for us!

[panthers55]

If they're going to promote within, it will likely be Ramsdell, if anyone.  

Why bring in a guy who has never been an OC in his life and has apparently little interest in being one or it would have happened by now.

[Nick_81]

Why bring in a guy who has never been an OC in his life and has apparently little interest in being one or it would have happened by now.

Read in context to what I replied to...

[Mvp2014]

I thought this thread was going to be way funnier

[panthers55]

A combination of factors made up the demise of this offense:

A. Cam still just looks lost on some plays. They are leaning on his rushing ability for him to make plays which is necessary but not at the expense of him maturing as a pocket QB. His touch SUCKS. He throws a rocket or nothing at all...that needs to be corrected. Truthfully I think that Dorsey needs to be out too. Someone needs to get on the field with Cam and have him throw "touch" passes all offseason. We know he can bomb it and we know he can throw the 25 yard out route on a rope. He needs the touch throws.

B. Redzone play calling. Shula sucks at it. If we aren't within 5 yards where a back can just bulldoze his way in the Shula is lost. Our efficiency from the 25 to the 5 had to be the worst in the league. Long developing plays and crappy run calls are the norm for that area of the field and Shula needs to be gone for that reason as well.

C. I know this falls on the position coaches but taking our best players out at key times of the game is a problem. With a scoring opp and the OL protecting well on Saturday we took our best receiver out of the game and the result was a coverage sack. THEN...we make Breton Bersin the #1 option once again inside the redzone and he gets nothing which causes Cam to go to read 2 (covered) and then read 3 (Dickson) and throws a pick 6. Partly on Cam...partly on Shula for a freaking terrible play call at crucial moments of the game.

There is no reason for us to struggle scoring...we have 2 monster backs with good speed/agility. We have the most multi dimensional QB in the league. We have a 6'5" receiver who will only continue to improve. We have the most sure handed TE in the game...and our OL started playing well at the end of the season. Insert a LT and a speed WR and well have some weapons. But even with all of that I don't see Shula improving and that is the goal. So if he isn't improving then he should be gone.

Cam showed what he could do as a ROOKIE with a OC who would open it up and take shots. This is now gonna be year 5...

Maybe we sucked at scoring because the offensive line was awful all season, we had 3rd/fourth stringers and rookies for wide receivers, and our backs and quarterback couldn't stay healthy.  But other than that, you may be right?? 

[CollegePanther]

Firing Rodgers is just throwing out a bone, it does nothing. Special teams is special teams, we didn't have a punt returner and either your kicker can make a FG or he can't, special teams is more player driven then coach driven, we NEED a new OC and new offensive philosophy, Jesus can we once be proactive instead of reactive

My honest opinion, I don't think Gman and Rivera have faith in Cam's mental ability to learn a new offensive system in one off season, it's not what I think, it's what I think the coaches think. New OCs are brought in all the time and you see QBs thrive because of it, Rivera and Gman don't want to risk Cam learning a new system

Cam can't learn a new offense in one off season? So what's he gonna do when he does get a new OC? Take a year off? Lol cmon man

[SmokinwithWilly]

I want to get rid of Shula as well, but who is going to replace him?  We already know that Carolina is cheap when it comes to this kind of thing.  When Chud left here, they lazily promoted Shula to OC.  I imagine if we let Shula go, we would just promote Ken Dorsey.

Sadly a 6 year old playing madden for the first time has more offensive creativity than Shula. At times it seemed like Shula was using best play option for him during games this season. 

[panthers55]

I don't think they're doing it to screw up on purpose.  It's still stupid.  I think it was the pick 6, when Bersin was in for KB near the goal line.  He was Cam's first read, and he failed to get any separation.  Much like every other time he was in for KB.  He couldn't beat the press multiple times, and just got manhandled at the LoS.  So, yeah, it was Cam's mistake for throwing a bad pass.  However, if KB were in the game, he is much less likely to have to make the other reads.  It's stupid to not have KB in the game, when we're in the red zone.  I'm sure he could muster the energy to jump enough to get over a defender, or box them out for a chance at the ball.  You don't keep 6'5", 240 lbs. receivers off of the field in those situations.

So let me get this straight.   So now Cam's pick six was Shula's fault because KB wasn't in?????  Are you serious???

 

Lets blame every thing but the elephant in the room which was that Cam still throws to the man instead of throwing to the spot with anticipation.  On most of the throws that were defended or picked, Cam was waiting for the man to get open and then trying to fire it to that spot rather than anticipating who was going to be open at what point and then throwing it to that spot before the defender could recover.  The problem with a rifle arm is that quarterbacks rely on it too much instead of developing anticipation and technique like those without the greatest physical tools. 

[panthers55]

The read option was already installed when Shula got to Carolina by Chudzinski.

Shula was here at QB coach the whole time Chud was here.  I don't know who was the one who thought to use it but it doesn't matter.  If Shula didn't think it was right for Cam they would have taken it out.

[panthers55]

There is a difference between thinking and knowing.

He very well may not think Shula is the problem.

Few have defended Shula more than me. But the "execution" excuse is any easy excuse. You can apply it across the board for any OC. Most are not just dimwitted idiots, so it is easy to say "well if this guy did that and that guy did that the play would have worked" That is almost always true on any given play.

But if players are not executing that in itself is a failure of coaching. Especially when it becomes an epidemic. After all, coaching is not just creating a playbook and calling plays. It is coaching guys up to execute those plays properly.

I am not one who has excessively called for Shula's head on a platter since day one. But at the end of the day, it is on an OC to find a way to generate yards and points. He failed too many times this season to just chalk it up to "players just didn't execute"

If a team isnt executing up and down the roster it is a coaching problem.  If some guys are executing and others aren't it a player problem.  When Cam doesn't execute properly it is almost always poor technique or not anticipating a situation.   

 

As for the OC generating points and yards, they are not on the field. It is like the old adage you can lead a horse to water but can't make him drink.  Likewise a coach can do everything to help a player execute but he can't do it for him.  And before you say then he should get rid of them, when you are playing backups and rookies because your talent has been diminished, exactly how do you keep doing that.

 

Some players didn't execute, others did,  that much is a no-brainer. Now you can argue the playcalling was poor but there is no debate about poor execution. And lets not decide it is on the coaches to do everything.  Fox was big on saying that if you execute correctly it doesn't matter if they know what you are doing,  They still have to stop it.