A lot of people talk about Cam and his backfoot

[beastson]

very valid points allthough i do not agree about him bein arguable better as a rookie that was a pass happy vertical offense(kinda miss it) cam does have the final say over his overall progression as a pocket passer but my point is lets bring in a guy who has already collected notches under thier belt like a Frank Reich Sean Payton Jim Harbaugh for ddeveloping pocket passers instead of working on ken dorseys resume...

 

 

He's already on the staff. His name is John Ramsdell. 

[Fan01]

I didn't read the whole thread so I don't know if this has been mentioned.

 

Does anyone realize how hard it is to change a habit like a throwing motion or footwork?

 

Getting it right is just a small part.  Do it it consistently is next.  Then doing it automatically without thinking about it.  This takes years and years of hard work.  And it's not something you can really work on during the season because you're too busy playing the game.  Cam had to dedicate himself to this in the off season.  Even then it's not a sure bet.  

 

Look at golfer who relay so much on technique and form and how many of them struggle with their swing on and off.  

 

It isn't just a easy answer like Cam remembering not to throw off his back foot. 

[PantherFanOne]

Rivera talked about Cam's footwork.

I'm trying to think of any other time a Head Coach publicly criticized his QBs' fundamentals the week heading into a critical Playoff game 

 

 

Gotta respect Ron for telling it like it is. Cam will never break his trend to have bad mechanics unless there is vocal pressure, as well as coaching, to help him overcome those breakdowns and mistakes he's developed.

[TheRed]

Really? Is this where you et al. pretend to know more than the front office again? Do you think they conspire against us to lose intentionally? Do you know anything about the relationship between Cam and coach, what the coach knows, etc. and are you qualified--IQ scores withstanding---to analyze the quality of that relationship from your couch?

Dorsey has literally never coached before this at any level whatsoever in any capacity.

That isn't "pretending to know more than the front office". It's stating a simple fact.

For what kind of investment we are making in Newton, I think getting some real coaching pedigree would be a good idea.

[MHS831]

Dorsey has literally never coached before this at any level whatsoever in any capacity.

That isn't "pretending to know more than the front office". It's stating a simple fact.

For what kind of investment we are making in Newton, I think getting some real coaching pedigree would be a good idea.

 

Yes, it is a fact that Dorsey has never coached before.  And every coach who has ever coached in the league once was in the same position. If you think Cam is successful, then why are you questioning Dorsey's pedigree?  If Cam is elite, then his position coach surely deserves credit for turning his only underling into a star.  Throw in Derek Anderson, and do you still want to question his pedigree?

[TheRed]

Yes, it is a fact that Dorsey has never coached before. And every coach who has ever coached in the league once was in the same position. If you think Cam is successful, then why are you questioning Dorsey's pedigree? If Cam is elite, then his position coach surely deserves credit for turning his only underling into a star. Throw in Derek Anderson, and do you still want to question his pedigree?

If we are going to give anyone "credit" for Newton's development, it would be Shula. But even that would be almost laughable. This staff has gotten by on Newton's raw athleticism all too often since he came into the NFL, he's had to carry quite a hefty load, literally. He's been the run game here all too often, and now here we are winning again because we have a running back who can help pick up some of that slack. I think for Newton to take that next step in his career, we need to explore our options, and if that means replacing Shula and Dorsey, then do it. We have a once in a generation talent here, don't squander it by going cheap.

I'm not even sure why you're mentioning Derek Anderson at this point. We're not aiming for a career backup here.

[MHS831]

If we are going to give anyone "credit" for Newton's development, it would be Shula. But even that would be almost laughable. This staff has gotten by on Newton's raw athleticism all too often since he came into the NFL, he's had to carry quite a hefty load, literally. He's been the run game here all too often, and now here we are winning again because we have a running back who can help pick up some of that slack. I think for Newton to take that next step in his career, we need to explore our options, and if that means replacing Shula and Dorsey, then do it. We have a once in a generation talent here, don't squander it by going cheap.

I'm not even sure why you're mentioning Derek Anderson at this point. We're not aiming for a career backup here.

 

All I have been saying for months is that Cam needs to take it to the next level.  Now it seems you agree, and I agree that it is possible that Dorsey and Shula may not be the duo to accomplish that. But to assume they are failures is to call Cam one, because he is the primary measure of Dorsey;s success.  My only reason for examining Anderson was to evaluate Dorsey--he coaches the back ups too.  If Anderson seems coached up, then maybe the problem with Cam is not Dorsey.  Anyway, my point was that Cam needs to improve.  If he cannot with the existing coaches, it does not necessarily mean that better coaches will produce better results. Based on what was said, you have to ask,  "Is Cam "coachable?"  I think he is, but he keeps repeating the same mistakes.  Is that on Dorsey?  I don't know how much (if any) is, but I do know that pro athletes that don't know the fundamentals are at the very least partially to blame themselves, if not 100% to blame..  

[TheRed]

All I have been saying for months is that Cam needs to take it to the next level. Now it seems you agree, and I agree that it is possible that Dorsey and Shula may not be the duo to accomplish that. But to assume they are failures is to call Cam one, because he is the primary measure of Dorsey;s success. My only reason for examining Anderson was to evaluate Dorsey--he coaches the back ups too. If Anderson seems coached up, then maybe the problem with Cam is not Dorsey. Anyway, my point was that Cam needs to improve. If he cannot with the existing coaches, it does not necessarily mean that better coaches will produce better results. Based on what was said, you have to ask, "Is Cam "coachable?" I think he is, but he keeps repeating the same mistakes. Is that on Dorsey? I don't know how much (if any) is, but I do know that pro athletes that don't know the fundamentals are at the very least partially to blame themselves, if not 100% to blame..

I'm not sure if you are under the mistaken impression that I'm attempting to put everything on the coaches while putting nothing on Cam, but uh that is silly, and I can assure you that is certainly not the case.

Anderson is what he is, I'm a fan of his, he's a quality backup, that's all that can really be said

I think you are unfortunately all too unrealistic in your expectations for a fourth year quarterback. Especially one who has dealt with as much physical adversity as Newton had in 2014. The "problems" as you put it are all relatively minor and definitely correctable, and I look forward to seeing Cam work on that after the season where he will actually get a chance to heal up, and also get some more continuity with his WR's, something he wasn't able to do much last year with the ankle surgery and other injuries that unfortunately followed.

The future is bright for the Panthers, sometimes I think that becomes lost for fans here. We're pretty lucky all things considered.

[MHS831]

I'm not sure if you are under the mistaken impression that I'm attempting to put everything on the coaches while putting nothing on Cam, but uh that is silly, and I can assure you that is certainly not the case.

Anderson is what he is, I'm a fan of his, he's a quality backup, that's all that can really be said

I think you are unfortunately all too unrealistic in your expectations for a fourth year quarterback. Especially one who has dealt with as much physical adversity as Newton had in 2014. The "problems" as you put it are all relatively minor and definitely correctable, and I look forward to seeing Cam work on that after the season where he will actually get a chance to heal up, and also get some more continuity with his WR's, something he wasn't able to do much last year with the ankle surgery and other injuries that unfortunately followed.

The future is bright for the Panthers, sometimes I think that becomes lost for fans here. We're pretty lucky all things considered.

 

I have heard you put everything on the coaches, OL, WRs, injuries, etc.  and I have not heard you put any substantial responsibility on Cam--that is not to say you think that, but it is what you seem to have projected.  Maybe I don't understand where you are coming frrom--my points are often distorted by people who think I am attacking Cam.  I am not--I simply want him to develop so he can have a long career here.  If you have time to read this, it explains a lot:

I think the future is bright for the Panthers too, and Cam is at the center of that.   I understand that Cam has had a lot of adversity to overcome, but there are things he could be doing to overcome some of the "self-inflicted" adversity, and he has not.  Tell me what area of his game has improved substantially during the past 4 years?  The best predictor of future performance is past performance.  I see the mechanics--something they vowed to work on when he was a rookie because he was raw and did not run a pro set offense--worse now.  Yes, you could say that this is due to the OL, WRs and injuries as easily as you could say it is not.

 

The injuries are my concern.  If you want to look at the future, you have to protect Cam.  You have to see growth in his development.  Yes, his passing percentage went up, but that was after switching OCs.  This year, it is down.  However, I have seen bad habits being formed and, regardless of the situation around you, a QB needs sound mechanics.  Since you mentioned the future, look how banged up he is now---do you see a 12-year career here?  If he has to run the ball, he will not last long.  If the beating he is taking affects his mechanics like some say it has, then this is his cap.  I ask anyone to name a running QB with bad throwing mechanics from the pocket in the hall of fame.  Name one who had a decent career.  There are none.

 

Wnen you make the excuse that he has only been in the league 4 years, I want to see the growth.  Andrew Luck had little to work with in Indy.  He had a bad first year, but they won.  He has been consistent, mechanically sound, etc.  The difference?  Andrew throws from the pocket and runs only when needed. He has similar size and speed, and has proven that he can run. They are more dangerous with him in the pocket than on the run.  He has improved in 3 seasons.  Cam is more dangerous running the ball than in the pocket.  He is awesome at it, but he tends to get hit a lot.  Because he knows running is an option, he holds the ball too long and his feet are often not in throwing position.  He takes hits.  Does than make him less effective than Luck?  Does that probably mean his career will be shorter?  Yes to both.

 

I want him to evolve because he has more talent than any QB who has ever played.  When I see him running by design, I see coaches living in the now and trying to save their jobs.  I wish he didn't have to run.  I wish he was mechanically sound and used his God-given talent to play NFL QB.  I think 4 years is long enough to fix mechanical issues.

 

[TheRed]

I don't understand why you are so hellbent on randomly inserting Andrew Luck into these conversations.