Hurney, Peppers and Defensive Tackles

[mountainpantherfan]

I live in south-western PA, Steeler country, so Saturday night I did not get to watch the Panthers game. (On a side note the Steelers/Redskins game was entertaining.) So I had to wait until this afternoon to watch the Panthers play on NFL network. I watched the game and the team did look a lot better than they did agaisnt the Giants. I was very impressed with Rasorio and that was a pleasent surprise. But last night I couldn't take it and came onto the huddle just to see what everyone else thought about the team's performance. Probably a bad idea.

This is the preseason and we will not have any idea how this team, as it is currently assembled, will truely preform until the season begins. But we can look at the players and judge the personel just the same as the coaches are doing. Though most of the positions seemed to improve from the last game DT was still a position that was painful to watch.

All of this got me thinking, both last night and today, about the personel and the man in charge of it all Marty Hurney. I know many on here have been and are still calling for Fox to be fired and such. I think it is unjustified for the most part and it surprises me that Hurney really has went without any real critism.

I do have to give Hurney a lot of credit for many moves he has made over his time in Carolina. It isn't like he has been horrible or that he has been reckless. But thats not to say that all of the moves he has made have been good moves and sometimes I think Fox gets the blame when in reality it was probably Hurney that was the one making the decissions.

Another poster said last night that Fox was too loyal to draft picks and veterns and that too much talent had been cut or wasted because of that. Is that really true of Fox? Lets not forget who exactly Fox's boss is, Hurney. And no matter how good of a relationship the two may have I'm sure Hurney still has his final say in many areas, like who gets cut and who stays. It is actually reported every preseason that Hurney and Fox look over the roster and make the final cuts. I'm sure that his picks and vet players that he signed to contracts are given special treatment. And what is Fox going to say?

One of the examples that was used was that Fox held on to Rucker and Minter past their prime. But in reality there was no one behind them on the depth chart that would have been better options. It wasn't that Fox didn't cut them when he should have as the poster suggested, he couldn't. And this really seems to be a trend with Hurney and one that teams like the Eagles and the Patriots, constant playoff and super bowl contenders, don't do. They know when to let players go and they know how to ensure that their departure is replaced with talent. It isn't easy but it works.

Which brings me to my main point, Peppers. The issue isn't so much that Hurney used the tag on him. I thought I understood the reasoning behind it. But in the end I didn't. Hurney wasn't trying to trade him by using the tag, he was using it to force him to stay. It's not a unheard of move and with other teams it has worked out. But from all reports this wasn't an issue of a player that couldn't come to terms with a contract and the main issues were over money. No, this was an issue of the player not wanting to be here no matter the amount of the contract.

If this was known, or if it wasn't then it should have been, then why didn't they trade Peppers in 06 or 07. Was that the real reason for Peppers "down year"? Could he have already been trying to force a trade or a release? It seems that if Hurney had a master plan on building this team it either crumbled and he is still trying to salvage it by keeping Peppers or it was a horrible plan to begin with that needs adjusting.

It isn't fair to blame Peppers for the problems we have along the defensive line or the lack of depth on the offensive line. But I do think it is fair to place blame on Hurney and the way he handled the Peppers situation. But all isn't lost and maybe, hopefully Hurney can show some of the brillence that he does have and dealing with these issues.

Many on here have speculated on who could be used in a trade to obtain a DT or two. Well, in all honesty this could be the perfect situation for Hurney to build this team up and handle the Peppers situation all at once. No, he isn't going to get 2 1st rounders or the equivilent for him but teams rarely ever do in these type of situations.

So here is my suggestion, not that I think Hurney is reading this or that it is more than just a pipe dream. Convience Peppers that Kansas City is the new Patriots south, which in reality it is. If he would be willing to sign long term there and if they are willing to take him then structure a three way deal in which KC would get Peppers, Cleveland would get KC's 2010 3rd round pick and Carolina would get Glen Dorsey and Corey Williams.

It really is a perfect type of situation. Both Dorsey and Williams are "round pegs" at their current teams and by most accounts the teams are looking to trade them. KC is switching to a 3-4, which is what Peppers wants. And the Panthers come away with two starting caliber DTs and don't have to give up a draft pick to do so.

Now that would leave us without Peppers, who is without a doubt the best player on the defensive line if not the entire defense. But seeing our current situation I think that the defensive line and the defense would come out better as a whole in the end.

It is a pipe dream but who knows. Hurney was at both the KC and Cleveland games this past week. And like I said, while I am really questioning some of Hurney's moves it isn't like he isn't capable of pulling off a move like this. The only question would be is he willing.

Sorry for this post being so long and thanks for leting me share my thoughts.

[Sam Mills Fan]

Carolina gets Glenn Dorsey and Corey Williams.

Kansas City gets Julius Peppers.

Cleveland gets a 3rd round pick.

Err....good post but...one of these things is not like the other.

[dpanthersman]

your right it is a pipe dream. but the funny thing is i was having the same dream earlier today. except i also had us getting thigpen(sp) or Quinn/Anderson in the trade as well, to be the backup behind Jake. but in reality i think we all now this isn't gonna happen, but it would be nice if it did.

so how did u become a panthers fan in the middle of steelers country?

[PantherBrew]

Carolina gets Glenn Dorsey and Corey Williams.

Kansas City gets Julius Peppers.

Cleveland gets a 3rd round pick.

Err....good post but...one of these things is not like the other.

Its very, very unlikely. But they are only losing Corey Williams. Which a 3rd rounder sounds right.

[mountainpantherfan]

Carolina gets Glenn Dorsey and Corey Williams.

Kansas City gets Julius Peppers.

Cleveland gets a 3rd round pick.

Err....good post but...one of these things is not like the other.

Reports are that Cleveland may be willing to trade Williams for as high as a 5th round pick. KC is said to be looking for a 1st round pick for Dorsey. I'm sure that if a trade like that did go down it would probably be more complex than that but with the info that fans are available to that is the most logical that I could come up with.

It does look like Cleveland is coming out on the short end of the stick but if you broke it down into two trades, based on the information at hand, it would look better.

[mountainpantherfan]

your right it is a pipe dream. but the funny thing is i was having the same dream earlier today. except i also had us getting thigpen(sp) or Quinn/Anderson in the trade as well, to be the backup behind Jake. but in reality i think we all now this isn't gonna happen, but it would be nice if it did.

so how did u become a panthers fan in the middle of steelers country?

Born and raised in Hickory, NC. Just moved up here last year for a job.

[Delhommey]

If we can get Williams for a 5th round pick, I think we should get Williams with a 5th round pick.

[Cat'sGrowl]

Rep to whomever read all that.

[firstdayfan]

If we can get Williams for a 5th round pick, I think we should get Williams with a 5th round pick.

I agree but at the same time if we were going to do something then why have we waited so long. I don't think Hurney is going to do anything, I think he will wait until cuts and we wont get anyone with any starting ability. At least the good news is that we know to start running backs against the Panthers in fantasy football...they are going to put up huge numbers all season. Just like the Meeks led Colts defesnse two years ago.

[Panthersfan105]

I think Carolina would be better off throwing Shaun Rodgers from Cleveland in the middle for a year. He's an under achiever but with our bookends all he'll need to do is take up space. He isn't fitting into Clevelands system at the moment and word is Cleveland will possiably even look into cutting him before preseason is over...

[Panthersfan105]

I agree but at the same time if we were going to do something then why have we waited so long. I don't think Hurney is going to do anything, I think he will wait until cuts and we wont get anyone with any starting ability.

Over the past 2 weeks Hurney's been in KC, Cleveland, Green Bay, Minnesota, and Tenn. I doubt he would be doing all that traveling for no reason...We have little to trade with for a grade A starter but theirs a strong chance someone will be brought in soon.

[magnus]

If we can get Williams for a 5th round pick, I think we should get Williams with a 5th round pick.

yeah, if it was this easy I'd hope we'd be on this already.

[beastson]

We NEED TO MAKE A MOVE NOW

No more stalling. Nobody want a DT close to gameday when they all learning the system. We really should get it down this week if we can. 3 weeks away

[PhillyB]

Hurney could not foresee Kemo annihilating his achilles, which made all this an issue in the first place.