Huddle question: Do they pay Cam next year?

[MHS831]

It is incredibly foolish to simply throw out all of Newton's success and judge him solely on this season, a season in which just about every single player on this team has struggled at some point. You cannot just omit all of the contributing factors and say "welp, we can't pay him".

 

Give Newton the offseason to get 100%.

 

Shore up the OL, and get some fresh ideas in here for this offense, if that means a new OC, then do it. Shula isn't cutting it.

 

Nobody but you is talking about throwing $120 million at him right now.

 

 

I disagree.  Newton has been 100% healthy for most of his career.  He has had decent lines and decent weapons.  He has had some great games, and some games where he should have been pulled.  He is inconsistent because he has no identity as a QB and his mechanics are terrible while his athleticism is incredible.  I am not impressed by a qb leading his team in rushing.  I am not impressed by a qb holding the ball for 5 seconds and taking a sack.  I am impressed with his arm, his size, and his charisma.  He has the tools.  He is not there yet.  If you have to make excuses for him, you are not either.

 

Tell me, do we have to build a great team around Cam to make him great, or is it the other way around?  I told you before that Ian Rappaport reported that Cam's camp wanted him to be paid like an elite qb.  I even shared the link with you.  Now you are saying I am the only one saying $120m. How much do you think elite QBs make?   You missed the point again. 

 

Here is my point, but many on here have to make it black and white to understand it.  We don't know how good he can be.  While a QB like Andrew Luck makes everyone around him better, evidenced by taking a 2-14 team to three straight 10+ seasons, Cam faithful claim that Cam needs talent around him to step up., Just because you claim that he has no talent around him, that does not mean he will be great when he does.  In fact, the paradox is this--if that is the case, how good is he? 

 

This is a cyclical argument and I don't care that you are determined to get me to see your "logic."  I don't buy it.  Against New Orleans, Cam was terrific--elite, in fact. However, to reach that level of play, he had to run.  Remember when he was hit and we all thought he wasn't getting up?  He got up smiling.  Still, he is already--at age 25--started showing the signs of the beating he has taken.  Cam needs to learn to stay in the pocket if he is to survive.  There is no way I pay him elite money if he has to run and be surrounded by superior talent to win.  The math is simple. 

[TheRumGone]

I disagree.  Newton has been 100% healthy for most of his career.  He has had decent lines and decent weapons.  He has had some great games, and some games where he should have been pulled.  He is inconsistent because he has no identity as a QB and his mechanics are terrible while his athleticism is incredible.  I am not impressed by a qb leading his team in rushing.  I am not impressed by a qb holding the ball for 5 seconds and taking a sack.  I am impressed with his arm, his size, and his charisma.  He has the tools.  He is not there yet.  If you have to make excuses for him, you are not either.

 

Tell me, do we have to build a great team around Cam to make him great, or is it the other way around?  I told you before that Ian Rappaport reported that Cam's camp wanted him to be paid like an elite qb.  I even shared the link with you.  Now you are saying I am the only one saying $120m. How much do you think elite QBs make?   You missed the point again. 

 

Here is my point, but many on here have to make it black and white to understand it.  We don't know how good he can be.  While a QB like Andrew Luck makes everyone around him better, evidenced by taking a 2-14 team to three straight 10+ seasons, Cam faithful claim that Cam needs talent around him to step up., Just because you claim that he has no talent around him, that does not mean he will be great when he does.  In fact, the paradox is this--if that is the case, how good is he? 

 

This is a cyclical argument and I don't care that you are determined to get me to see your "logic."  I don't buy it.  Against New Orleans, Cam was terrific--elite, in fact. However, to reach that level of play, he had to run.  Remember when he was hit and we all thought he wasn't getting up?  He got up smiling.  Still, he is already--at age 25--started showing the signs of the beating he has taken.  Cam needs to learn to stay in the pocket if he is to survive.  There is no way I pay him elite money if he has to run and be surrounded by superior talent to win.  The math is simple. 

 

there are so many factual errors (not opinions, but facts) that are wrong in this post i don't even know where to start.

 

 

[TheRumGone]

at the end of last year MHS was saying "yes Cam is a franchise qb and he is on his way to being elite, i was wrong"

fast forward this year we got so bad on the offensive line, stripped all rapport with recievers minus olsen, ankle surgery, dumb fluke rib injury and all of a sudden we don't have a franchise qb when Cam in his 4th year is still growing and learning as a QB....uh dude this is fuging normal. Peyton fuging manning who you love to compare Cam to was poo his 4th year throwing 28 picks.

1. he WAS killing it from the pocket in the first six games when he was not "unleashed" PFF is your friend and so are your eyes.

2. I'm more afraid of Cam getting absolutely blindsided then i am him taking off and running where he can protect himself better. that may change if we get some competency on the line.

3. you are asking a 4th year player to make others better around him. That is rare. in fact i can't think of one qb in the history of the nfl who performed like a vet Tom Brady.

you need to be realistic. We don't want to overpay but we don't wanna short change and lose out on something that could be incredible or at the very least make us competitive year in and year out. Cam does that.

We have to hit on draft picks and be smart with our money. 120 million is a bogus number the report was a matt Ryan type of deal

[TheRed]

I disagree.  Newton has been 100% healthy for most of his career.  He has had decent lines and decent weapons.  He has had some great games, and some games where he should have been pulled.  He is inconsistent because he has no identity as a QB and his mechanics are terrible while his athleticism is incredible.  I am not impressed by a qb leading his team in rushing.  I am not impressed by a qb holding the ball for 5 seconds and taking a sack.  I am impressed with his arm, his size, and his charisma.  He has the tools.  He is not there yet.  If you have to make excuses for him, you are not either.

 

Tell me, do we have to build a great team around Cam to make him great, or is it the other way around?  I told you before that Ian Rappaport reported that Cam's camp wanted him to be paid like an elite qb.  I even shared the link with you.  Now you are saying I am the only one saying $120m. How much do you think elite QBs make?   You missed the point again. 

 

Here is my point, but many on here have to make it black and white to understand it.  We don't know how good he can be.  While a QB like Andrew Luck makes everyone around him better, evidenced by taking a 2-14 team to three straight 10+ seasons, Cam faithful claim that Cam needs talent around him to step up., Just because you claim that he has no talent around him, that does not mean he will be great when he does.  In fact, the paradox is this--if that is the case, how good is he? 

 

This is a cyclical argument and I don't care that you are determined to get me to see your "logic."  I don't buy it.  Against New Orleans, Cam was terrific--elite, in fact. However, to reach that level of play, he had to run.  Remember when he was hit and we all thought he wasn't getting up?  He got up smiling.  Still, he is already--at age 25--started showing the signs of the beating he has taken.  Cam needs to learn to stay in the pocket if he is to survive.  There is no way I pay him elite money if he has to run and be surrounded by superior talent to win.  The math is simple. 

 

Eh, I've seen the claim by Rapoport, but it's unconfirmed and still speculation. That means squat basically.

 

Why do you keep attempting to inject Andrew Luck into this conversation?

 

Have you even looked at their numbers the first few years? Newton has been right there with Luck, if anything they've been pretty close.

 

Indianapolis has constantly built around Luck, since they drafted him. You brought his name into this before, and I pointed out the facts of this to you, and you immediately ignored it. I don't know if you are just that hard headed, or you just want to trolll, but it's getting silly.

 

You have made some points, but they are so wrapped up in a clear lack of understanding and bias that you cannot even see past.

 

To be clear, I stated in this another thread with you, Newton does have things he needs to work on still, but they are easily correctable, and should be so this offseason. But we desperately need to pair him with the right coaches who understand how to develop him.

 

This staff has been more focused on getting by on his athletic ability than maximizing the talent that he possesses.

[CarolinaCoolin]

. Your argument reveals inconsistent performance. You say Cam was great behind the OLINE during weeks 1-6 and he was "killing it from the pocket" (by the way, there were 9 QBs with higher qb ratings during Cam's hot streak) but then you blame the OLINE because he dropped off statistically. That makes no sense. It reveals that you give Cam credit for his success but blame his shortcomings on others--no wonder you have trouble making points.

Frankly, I am tired of having selective stats thrown at me from obscure sources to prove to me that Cam is great. My point is this--he has not proven he can win consistently and he has shown that his style of play leads to lingering injuries. He needs to run to win. These facts are consistent with his record as a qb. The NFL QB is measured by wins and losses. There are not many great qbs on bad teams and there are not many great teams with bad qbs. They are connected, which is why great QBs are measured by rings. Nobody measures greatness by a six-game stretch where a qb has a hot streak according to some website. Your argument is embarrassing.

Cam has all the tools and may be great with more support. However, he has not earned a top contract given to elite qbs because he is not elite at this time--even if PFF thinks so. I pray he will be, and I am excited about his potential when we put studs and stars around him, but he is what he is right now. Giving him $120 million or so could wreck the franchise if he does not improve and become more consistent. It is a huge gamble, and if you do not see it, you are biased. I want him to be great, but if you are crowning him the MVP, you don't understand this game.

Ugh it's like you didn't actually even read my post then continued to poo post.

The 9 other qbs with higher qb rating is completely irrelevant because that's not even the point I was arguing. Cam was the highest graded qb on PFF.

He's been far and way sacked more than anyone other qb this season(will end up having a career high in being sacked this season) and since he's entered the league.

When cam actually has time in the pocket his as good as any other qb

Look at the saints game. He wasn't touched once and threw for 300 and multiple tds. Your argument is beyond shitty.

[CarolinaCoolin]

Something has gone horribly wrong when me and thered are in the same thread agreeing but this MHS is the aids for real.

[pantherclaw]

They have another 18 months before they have to extend him.

If they can both come to an easy agreement, than he'll be extended this offseason.

If it goes to serious negotiating, i won't expect it until after next season.

[Killa Cam 69]

Please don't put cam and cutler in the same sentence

[MHS831]

there are so many factual errors (not opinions, but facts) that are wrong in this post i don't even know where to start.

I know where to start---list them.  My opinion is based on my opinion of an elite qb.  Cam has not met those qualifications yet.  If you don't agree, list your own facts and support your opinion.  I look beyond the athletic runs for a first down and the streaks.  I want a QB celebrating TDs, and wins not first downs and moral victories.  Facts?  There are only perceptions, and I state mine. 

[MHS831]

Ugh it's like you didn't actually even read my post then continued to poo post.

The 9 other qbs with higher qb rating is completely irrelevant because that's not even the point I was arguing. Cam was the highest graded qb on PFF.

He's been far and way sacked more than anyone other qb this season(will end up having a career high in being sacked this season) and since he's entered the league.

When cam actually has time in the pocket his as good as any other qb

Look at the saints game. He wasn't touched once and threw for 300 and multiple tds. Your argument is beyond shitty.

 

Maybe we should all chip in and buy a banner for the stadium that reads, "Cam Newton: Highest Rated QB on some website during weeks 2-7, 2014"  You can organize the parade.

[TheRumGone]

I know where to start---list them. My opinion is based on my opinion of an elite qb. Cam has not met those qualifications yet. If you don't agree, list your own facts and support your opinion. I look beyond the athletic runs for a first down and the streaks. I want a QB celebrating TDs, and wins not first downs and moral victories. Facts? There are only perceptions, and I state mine.

I did in the next post. Look at the elite qbs now and their fourth years (Rodgers had time to sit and learn and grow)

[CarolinaCoolin]

Maybe we should all chip in and buy a banner for the stadium that reads, "Cam Newton: Highest Rated QB on some website during weeks 2-7, 2014" You can organize the parade.

There's no point having a discussion with you if you are going to be intentionally obtuse.

[MHS831]

Here are the facts:

 

http://espn.go.com/nfl/qbr

 

Cam is 20th in about every category except for running.  Note that some QBs his age or younger are higher in nearly every category.   This is my point--is he worth the contract?  In October, it was reported that he would not be interested in "Pay as you play" deal that gives the team an escape clause.  The articles I read (they are all over the internet) claim that his camp wants $50 m guaranteed.  I just do not think he has earned it.  If you want to know how productive--not flashy, but productive--look at the names around him on this list.  Change the categories and see where he ranks.  look at the surrounding names---heck, this even gives those who think stats are as important as wins and losses a chance to shine.  20th.  Surrounded by names like Fitzpatrick and Tanneyhill.  However, if the articles were accurate, he wants to be paid with Rogers, Manning, Brady, Brees, etc.  He wants guaranteed money for potential.  Those players were producing on a regular basis when they signed their deals.  He is right in the Dalton (16th) and Kaepernick (22) range, both accepted "pay for play" contracts.  Paying for potential gets you Cutler. 

 

So this is the problem facing Gettlemen.  I see both sides, but my position is simple-he has not earned an elite guaranteed contract, so don't expect Gettlemen to give him one.