What percentage is it Cam's Fault?

[MHS831]

Maybe that's why DG should not have taken away Cam's WR. He needs chemistry with this new set.

 

Yes, I see that.  But there was a money issue behind the matter.  Steve refused a pay cut.  At 35, I would not take one either.  His production (740 yards, 4 TDs, from memory) was down too.  If we kept Smith, he would have been the highest paid WR over 35 in NFL history--and none of the others earned their contract $ after that age, with maybe the exception going to Jerry Rice.  Smith (again, from memory) was set to make about $6m per season for 3 years; keeping him would have locked in the last 2 years--when we would have paid about $8m to a 37-year old WR.

 

So much of this was about Cam's maturation process.  They felt that Smitty was hindering that because he was so vocal and demonstrative.  It is not for you or me to say whether that is true or a good reason, but Gettlemen felt that he could not prosper with Smith in his ear. 

[MHS831]

He does that NOW. Back when he was Cam's age.....they put great talent around him. Now he coaches legit talent into great players.

But you need talent. We don't have it. Can't coach bleh into much.

 

I have said that we need talent too, but my point is this (when it all started):  The fact that Cam does not have good talent around him and is sucking (for the most part) does not mean that he would be great with talent around him.  It means that we are unable to know if he is good or not.

[MHS831]

Exactly. Manning could save a bad offense but Cam only stinks with it.

My point to all of Cam's nut huggers is this:  If Cam sucks because the players around him suck, then he is not great because he is not making them better.  If he requires great players around him to be great then he is not great, his supporting cast is great.  The fact that Cam is sucking with no talent around him is not to suggest that Cam is great but being repressed by poor talent, it means that he is not great enough to overcome it as other QBs in the past and present have.

 

The huggers seem to be operating on the assumption that no other successful QBs in the NFL have ever had to overcome circumstances like those Cam faces.  That is simply wrong.  Luck in Indy, Manning at Indy in 98-2000, Elway in Denver, Brees in New Orleans--etc. etc.  etc.  These QBs are great because they made their teams great and were able to instill hope and success into lifeless, talentless franchises.

If we lose today, Cam is 2-9-1 this year.  His QB rating is at an all-time low, 10 points lower than his rookie season.  Is this team worst than that one? 

[TheRed]

I know where to begin.

Sure you can say "the draft!!" and feel good about it, but look back at the draft when we were picking.  Your way, we grab Morgan Moses instead of Kelvin Benjamin. He is probably a bust, and most all of the Tackles drafted after him are developing.  Some have already been moved to G, and even the first rounders are struggling at LT.  The only way we draft a top T was to move up.  If you do that, we don't get Ealy in the second round, a player that will pay off soon.  Turner will be solid.  Yes, I wanted a T in the draft, but I can't tell you who and when even with the benefit of hindsight, something you are employing right now.  For Cam to be effective this year we needed a free agent.  That market was poor as well, so every decent T was overpaid.  We did not have the funds to overpay while trying to correct the cap mess we are currently in.  I am just being a realist.  You don't have to like the reality of the situation, but I see the fix Gettlemen was in.  I assure you, the plan was not to go with Bell and Chandler---however, the talent was either not available or affordable. 

 

Manning went to the super bowl with 3 scrub offensive linemen last year. Clady was injured and he actually was on his third center most of the year.  Bad example.   

 

Blaming the UFAs is fair, but we have been getting production out of Norwell.  I agree with your statement, but expecting rookies to solve the problem in the draft would have cost us talent at WR and on the DL.  And the rookies who were drafted in the first 2 rounds have basically done little. 

 

But the fact that I suggest that we do not know how good Cam is due to the OL is somewhat of an agreement with you.  The problem is you suggest hypothetical solutions that ignore the circumstances and ignore the sacrifices at other positions we would make to do what you want. 

 

Red, I am an OL man, and I believe that is where it starts. I also saw Gettlemen's dilemma when he was having to make decisions.  Looking back, I cannot find the spot where he should have reached for a T, based on what I now know about the player in the NFL. 

 

I can say that, late in the draft, I really wanted UNC T Hurst.  That pissed me off.  However, he would not be able to correct the problem this year.

 

Bottom line, Gettleman gambled big time with the OL, and it blew up in his face. That's a lesson he has to learn from.

 

My point to all of Cam's nut huggers is this:  If Cam sucks because the players around him suck, then he is not great because he is not making them better.  If he requires great players around him to be great then he is not great, his supporting cast is great.  The fact that Cam is sucking with no talent around him is not to suggest that Cam is great but being repressed by poor talent, it means that he is not great enough to overcome it as other QBs in the past and present have.

 

The huggers seem to be operating on the assumption that no other successful QBs in the NFL have ever had to overcome circumstances like those Cam faces.  That is simply wrong.  Luck in Indy, Manning at Indy in 98-2000, Elway in Denver, Brees in New Orleans--etc. etc.  etc.  These QBs are great because they made their teams great and were able to instill hope and success into lifeless, talentless franchises.

If we lose today, Cam is 2-9-1 this year.  His QB rating is at an all-time low, 10 points lower than his rookie season.  Is this team worst than that one? 

 

You are a smart man, but the things you are arguing in this post and some others is simply beyond reasoning with. If all you really have left is to go around labeling people "nut huggers" or whatever silly quip you can come up with, you have clearly lost the argument. Sorry.

 

You ramble on about Andrew Luck for pages, but when I mention the talent and build around philosphy disparity between the Colts and the Panthers since Newton and Luck were added to their respective teams, you don't even acknowledge it. You can't see past your agenda.

 

Also, Cam would not be "3-9-1" this year, the Carolina Panthers would be. It's a team sport.

 

Our quarterback is hardly the only Panthers player experiencing a down year statistically, even our best players have struggled.

 

Our team is lacking talent, but more importantly lacking the proper guidance from coaches, it seems like week in and week out we come into the next matchup with the same game plan, and week in and week out we are getting thoroughly exposed from top to bottom.

 

I don't think things are going to change much no matter who the quarterback is until we get a real OL, and a real offensive coordinator.

 

Also, in regards to your comment about quarterbacks having to overcome "circumstances", I'm still waiting for your comparable scenario in the history of the NFL where a QB who just had offseason surgery had his entire WR corps gutted heading into a contract year.

 

Last time I mentioned it you simply side stepped it, much like your Luck comments. Not surprising. I imagine you will simply do that again.

 

Good day sir.

[Hammerin'Cameron34]

My point to all of Cam's nut huggers is this:  If Cam sucks because the players around him suck, then he is not great because he is not making them better.  If he requires great players around him to be great then he is not great, his supporting cast is great.  The fact that Cam is sucking with no talent around him is not to suggest that Cam is great but being repressed by poor talent, it means that he is not great enough to overcome it as other QBs in the past and present have.

 

The huggers seem to be operating on the assumption that no other successful QBs in the NFL have ever had to overcome circumstances like those Cam faces.  That is simply wrong.  Luck in Indy, Manning at Indy in 98-2000, Elway in Denver, Brees in New Orleans--etc. etc.  etc.  These QBs are great because they made their teams great and were able to instill hope and success into lifeless, talentless franchises.

If we lose today, Cam is 2-9-1 this year.  His QB rating is at an all-time low, 10 points lower than his rookie season.  Is this team worst than that one? 

 

Great QB's dont do great things without great average players you jack off

 

Cam doesnt even have an average offense around him

[MHS831]

Bottom line, Gettleman gambled big time with the OL, and it blew up in his face. That's a lesson he has to learn from.

 

 

You are a smart man, but the things you are arguing in this post and some others is simply beyond reasoning with. If all you really have left is to go around labeling people "nut huggers" or whatever silly quip you can come up with, you have clearly lost the argument. Sorry.

 

You ramble on about Andrew Luck for pages, but when I mention the talent and build around philosphy disparity between the Colts and the Panthers since Newton and Luck were added to their respective teams, you don't even acknowledge it. You can't see past your agenda.

 

Also, Cam would not be "3-9-1" this year, the Carolina Panthers would be. It's a team sport.

 

Our quarterback is hardly the only Panthers player experiencing a down year statistically, even our best players have struggled.

 

Our team is lacking talent, but more importantly lacking the proper guidance from coaches, it seems like week in and week out we come into the next matchup with the same game plan, and week in and week out we are getting thoroughly exposed from top to bottom.

 

I don't think things are going to change much no matter who the quarterback is until we get a real OL, and a real offensive coordinator.

 

Also, in regards to your comment about quarterbacks having to overcome "circumstances", I'm still waiting for your comparable scenario in the history of the NFL where a QB who just had offseason surgery had his entire WR corps gutted heading into a contract year.

 

Last time I mentioned it you simply side stepped it, much like your Luck comments. Not surprising. I imagine you will simply do that again.

 

Good day sir.

Cam just showed you (opening drive vs. Saints) that you can be successful with the personnel.  He was balanced, he got rid of the ball quickly, etc. So everyone who was making excuse after excuse after excuse needs to shut up.  He proved that it can be done.  The question I have been asking. "Why hasn't it?"  Huggers describes people too blinded by subjectivity to see the reality of the situation.

 

[TheRed]

Cam just showed you (opening drive vs. Saints) that you can be successful with the personnel.  He was balanced, he got rid of the ball quickly, etc. So everyone who was making excuse after excuse after excuse needs to shut up.  He proved that it can be done.  The question I have been asking. "Why hasn't it?"  Huggers describes people too blinded by subjectivity to see the reality of the situation.

 

Problem is why are we just now realizing that our quarterback thrives in that sort of offense?

 

Again, coaching plays a pivotal role. You have to put your players in the best situation for them to succeed.

 

No one here is completely absolving Newton of blame. But I guess it's no use conversing with you if all you can say is "HUGGERS!!!".

[MHS831]

Great QB's dont do great things without great average players you jack off

 

Cam doesnt even have an average offense around him

 

Before you call names due to your lack of ability to field an opinion that is different from your own--which makes you an idiot---explain how Cam is playing so well today?  He has the same offense.

 

It is a contradiction you cannot explain.  If he can succeed at times, then your argument that the OL and WRs are inept is invalid.  Now google some GED programs and consider changing your life.

[mav1234]

Before you call names due to your lack of ability to field an opinion that is different from your own--which makes you an idiot---explain how Cam is playing so well today?  He has the same offense.

 

It is a contradiction you cannot explain.  If he can succeed at times, then your argument that the OL and WRs are inept is invalid.  Now google some GED programs and consider changing your life.

 

 

because it's not just players... it is also scheme.

 

and cam played poorly in past weeks, no doubt, but he wasn't alone. entire offense sucked... and our OC wasn't helping him out.

[MHS831]

Problem is why are we just now realizing that our quarterback thrives in that sort of offense?

 

Again, coaching plays a pivotal role. You have to put your players in the best situation for them to succeed.

 

No one here is completely absolving Newton of blame. But I guess it's no use conversing with you if all you can say is "HUGGERS!!!".

 

That is not all I said, but if it struck a nerve, there is probably a good reason.  I am here to discuss the panthers, not collect posts from one individual and collage them in a futile attempt to win an argument.   FYI, A hugger is someone who fails to see Cam's shortcomings and gives the blame to everyone else until he succeeds, and then they give him all the credit.  Blind, subjectivity. I know the game; I don't need anyone to explain how a QB's play is impacted by teammates.  I know the difference between a reason and an excuse.  Today, he is showing what happens when you get rid of the ball.  Even so, he has made a few unforced errors and has demonstrated some bad mechanics. 

[TheRed]

That is not all I said, but if it struck a nerve, there is probably a good reason.  I am here to discuss the panthers, not collect posts from one individual and collage them in a futile attempt to win an argument.   FYI, A hugger is someone who fails to see Cam's shortcomings and gives the blame to everyone else until he succeeds, and then they give him all the credit.  Blind, subjectivity. I know the game; I don't need anyone to explain how a QB's play is impacted by teammates.  I know the difference between a reason and an excuse.  Today, he is showing what happens when you get rid of the ball.  Even so, he has made a few unforced errors and has demonstrated some bad mechanics. 

 

Well if you're here to discuss the Panthers maybe we could have a conversation without the word hugger appearing in each of your posts several times. You don't have to explain to me what it means, I've certainly seen that poor obligatory response plenty of times here.

 

If you know the difference between a reason and an excuse, maybe you could comment on some of the things I mentioned in earlier posts.

[MHS831]

because it's not just players... it is also scheme.

 

and cam played poorly in past weeks, no doubt, but he wasn't alone. entire offense sucked... and our OC wasn't helping him out.

"And Cam played poorly in past weeks, no doubt, BUT....

 

There it is.

[IGSaint]

"And Cam played poorly in past weeks, no doubt, BUT....

 

There it is.

 

Dude, the offense is not strictly just in the hands of Cam. The o-line has to execute, the running game has to execute. The playcalling has to be good. The NFL is not basketball where your play is solely reliant on yourself. I don't know how you don't understand that. 

[mav1234]

"And Cam played poorly in past weeks, no doubt, BUT....

 

There it is.

 

there what is?  are you incapable of reading?  cam isn't playing well this year but nobody on our entire fuging team is.  this is the best game we've had all year from EVERYONE, including coaches.  claiming this shows that Cam is somehow "the problem" is fuging retarded.