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Who to blame for Panthers' last ranked D


top dawg

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Cason is a Pro Bowler. He & Harper have been productive without last year's front 7.

Mitchell was complete dog poo in Oakland. He's garbage again this year. He had one decent year playing behind the best front in football. Munnerlyn is the worst CB in the league this year.

Our secondary is bad, but they aren't any worse than last year's. The front 7 is the difference.

 

Our back 4 is comparable to last year.....the difference is no pass rush

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I don't think that's the problem. I think he's trying get all the dead cap removed from the team to sign his drafted players long term including cam and luke. From my understanding of your post you're meaning backload the contracts? 

 

Signing players to multi-year deals does not mean they are back loaded. You can front load them, or back load them, or make the cap hit equal throughout the length of the contract.

 

Let's say there is a guy you really want. His agent says he won't sign for less than $12 million guaranteed, and he expects at least an additional $2 million per year average in base salary. If it's a 2 year deal that is spread equally, the cap charge per year is $7 million. If it's 3 years, the cap charge is $6 million. If it's 4 years, it's $5 million. If he's a good player, a guy you think is a fit in your system, paying $5 or $6 million a year is fair and workable.

 

Where Hurney fuged up was he both paid people too much, and at least in the case of Stewart, he heavily backloaded the deal. Without looking up the numbers, Stewart got something like $25 million in guaranteed money, but it wasn't all paid out when the deal was signed. Something like $9 million was signing bonus, but the rest of the guaranteed money hit in later years. So if you cut him in the early years of the deal, you still owe him the rest of the guaranteed money. If you want to see the firm numbers, you can check out a site like Spotrack.

 

You can also front load a deal if you are in a position to do so (we aren't right now). In that case, you pay the signing bonus up front, and make the salary higher in the early years of the deal and less in the later years.

 

So my original point was we could have used that $13 million spent on Hardy differently. Would 1 Hardy have a greater impact than say 3 decent players at other positions? Hard to say, but certainly debatable. Of course, you only go that route if you have players you like and feel they fit your system.

 

Just for the record, a guy like Anthony Collins carries a cap charge of $6 million per year. He may not be playing well in Tampa's scheme and he may not have for us either. The only reason I mention him is people see he signed a $30 million dollar deal and instantly think we could not have afforded him or any other player signing in that ballpark, and that's just not true.

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Dave.

Even with Hardy....he downgraded too much. Even a dominant pass rush needs a certain level of consistent play behind it.

 

You are assuming the coaches had no input on who was cut and who stayed.  I doubt its that simple.   I can't imagine that the GM just cuts people as he pleases with no input from coaches.  My guess is Dave made the decisions based on cap issues and inputs from the coaching staff. 

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Signing players to multi-year deals does not mean they are back loaded. You can front load them, or back load them, or make the cap hit equal throughout the length of the contract.

 

Let's say there is a guy you really want. His agent says he won't sign for less than $12 million guaranteed, and he expects at least an additional $2 million per year average in base salary. If it's a 2 year deal that is spread equally, the cap charge per year is $7 million. If it's 3 years, the cap charge is $6 million. If it's 4 years, it's $5 million. If he's a good player, a guy you think is a fit in your system, paying $5 or $6 million a year is fair and workable.

 

Where Hurney fuged up was he both paid people too much, and at least in the case of Stewart, he heavily backloaded the deal. Without looking up the numbers, Stewart got something like $25 million in guaranteed money, but it wasn't all paid out when the deal was signed. Something like $9 million was signing bonus, but the rest of the guaranteed money hit in later years. So if you cut him in the early years of the deal, you still owe him the rest of the guaranteed money. If you want to see the firm numbers, you can check out a site like Spotrack.

 

You can also front load a deal if you are in a position to do so (we aren't right now). In that case, you pay the signing bonus up front, and make the salary higher in the early years of the deal and less in the later years.

 

So my original point was we could have used that $13 million spent on Hardy differently. Would 1 Hardy have a greater impact than say 3 decent players at other positions? Hard to say, but certainly debatable. Of course, you only go that route if you have players you like and feel they fit your system.

 

Just for the record, a guy like Anthony Collins carries a cap charge of $6 million per year. He may not be playing well in Tampa's scheme and he may not have for us either. The only reason I mention him is people see he signed a $30 million dollar deal and instantly think we could not have afforded him or any other player signing in that ballpark, and that's just not true.

 

it's still 15 million guaranteed money for a marginal at best player. Long term it wouldn't be beneficial to us.

 

I think the main thing here is what players on the market this past offseason should we have looked at long-term that fit into our long term goals? I don't know, i didn't see many. Could we or should we have resigned mitchell, munnerlyn and ginn?

 

Hurney's main problem was that he gave those contracts to a position group that you can get similar production out of lesser talent/cheaper cost.

 

I think some people look at hardy with 20/20 vision even if they don't mean to. Hardy is a top DE. he is a top talent in the entire league. That front 7 was arguable one of the best in the history of the NFL in 2013. Even Hardy said something along the lines of you take one of us out, the rest will suffer.

 

I honestly think the tag on Hardy was used because DG didn't see the talent in the market that was worth the price, the franchise desperately needed back to back winning seasons to heal some fans/players/organizations hearts, and it wouldn't fug us over long-term.

 

You could tell in the presser with DG when hardy was placed on the commissioners list that it was over. he knew it. Right now I think we will see Cam get locked up long term so that 15 million cap hit next year will be lessened. We will have removed a massive chunk of dead money off the books and we will start seeing some more breathing room to lock up Luke. My hope is there will be some decently priced talent this coming offseason, we hit very well in the draft and we can Mike Shula at the very least (hopefully Ron too).

 

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Biggest issue that I can see?

 

 

 

Big Money, KK, Dwan, and Ealy/Horton/Addison

 

 

 

They are getting run on, allowing G's and T's to get to the second level, and applying no pressure on the QB.

 

 

 

 

When this happens, it takes out the LB's, and exposes the Back 4.

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Wow. I looked up total defense rankings, and guess what? We are dead last. Our defensive guru, by all accounts an excellent defensive coordinator, is fielding the NFL's worst. So, I ask, who is to blame for this shipreck---this fall from grace?

I can tell you that in all my years of watching football, I have never seen such a marked fall...off a cliff, defensively. Some may blame McDermott. Others, perhaps, the players. Can the turnstyle in the defensive backfield, or Greg Hardy's misguided judgment make that much of a difference...causing the defense to turn 180 degrees? Was it the big head of Dave Gettleman, self-proclaimed proclaimed personnel mastermind? Perhaps it's the Huddle's favorite and most convenient excuse, Marty Hurney. I guess the easy answer is a combination of everything. It just seems like that's too easy.

Wow. I just thought we were getting a little better (maybe around 28th or something). I guess I should have known after all the beat-downs. Silly me.

I Blame Obama...

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It's really 3 things for me

1. First and foremost: Lack of Greg Hardy leaves us with only 1 perennial pass rusher who is in turned shut out of the game with double teams. Horton and Ealy benefit from Johnson being targeted at times, but they aren't talented enough to draw attention themselves. Hardy opens the entire defense up to cause chaos.

2. Close second: The secondary is piss-poor pitiful. They all suck. Norman has shown signs, but he's too inconsistent to say he doesn't suck right now. They aren't very good. It's simple. Now, you can blame the players, their lack of execution, and blatta blah blah. But the fact that this is what the FO has given this coaching staff to work with, the players can't be blamed for being told to start and play. The FO is fully at blame for fielding these players.

3. Third and less important but still worth noting: By and Large, our linebackers are inconsistent in coverage. Great tacklers, great at locating the ball, but the weakness of Luke/TD/Klein is the fact that they collectively are below average in zone and man coverage

Basically, I blame this coaching staff for game management and situational adjustments on both sides of the ball. I do not, however, blame this coaching staff for the defense, the offensive line, or the lack of weaponry on offense.

Essentially, Dave Gettleman takes the majority of the blame for this. These are the players that HE chose to give the coaching staff to work with.

The lack of talent can't be put on the players or the coaches. The players aren't very good, they shouldn't be on this team as the best possible options. Simple as that. But, you can't blame the players for playing and you can't blame the coaches for choosing from what they've got.

Your third point doesn't really hold water. Davis and Kuechly are top ranked at their respective positions in pass coverage. AJ had only been in for 88 pass plays. It's not our linebackers letting us down in coverage, it's everyone else.

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Cam has to learn not to run backwards and then take a sack or possibly fumble.  The great Quarterbacks hardly take a sack for a loss because they either take a check down quickly or throw the ball away.  Brees is a master at getting the ball out quickly. When they are getting rushed, they call short routes and ding and dunk you to death like a thousand small cuts until you bleed to weakened and give up the press.

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Who are some of the players you had in mind that would take the one year/two/three year deals adding up to 13 million in gauranteed money?

I'm just curious because I didn't see a top 5 safety like mikel that was cheap like last year. Corners are a wash from last year.

Corners aren't a wash. Our starting nickel formation.....which in today's NFL opponents can make your base was drastically worse. Captain was above average in that set at nickel.

We also didn't need to find top 5 caliber S play for cheap. Average is a noteworthy improvement over Harper.

We had Hardy's 13 mill, PLUS what we gave all these bums PLUS our current cap space. You tell me with that we could of found some better DBs

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