Still in for Rivera~

[SCMunnerlyn1]

Im still down for rivera as well. Just not shula and until I see consistency in his accuracy (even with a clean pocket) not Cam either.

[PantherFanOne]

We are stuck with Rivera and Shula this year, at seasons end both need to go and bring in a HC and OC that is offensive minded,someone who is well versed in the modern concept of NFL football.

This slow thinking,slow acting duo have proven game after game they are not the coaches the Panthers need if they want to be annual playoff contenders,to think otherwise would be foolish..

[Jmac]

I believe Gano had issues with field goals before he signed here....both short and long. Always had the big leg for kickoffs.

Seems like he has improved since being here. Except for last week of course.

[Captroop]

I'll cosign with the OP, in spite of his/her truly atrocious grammar and spelling.

 

Charley Casserly said on the local sports radio here that, "No one bakes anymore. Everyone wants to microwave." What he meant by that is that the NFL now seems to demand instant success. In the past coaches and players were given years to develop, through thick and thin. Casserly said if Terry Bradshaw played today, he never would have made it more than 3 years in the NFL. Fans and front office execs expect rookies, and rookie QBs especially, to step in and be instant Pro Bowlers. They expect coaches to deliver winning records, and be playoff contenders every year from year 1. And if they don't deliver, the fans demand they cut/fire/kill the offending underperformer.

 

Truthfully, I blame Gettleman and Shula a lot more than Ron. Gettleman left the team with an absolute dearth of talent. And Shula is...yeah.

 

By all means, fire Shula. He is ultimately who has mismanaged the offense, turned Cam into a game manager, and has a track record of failure. No point in letting that bake. It's burnt. It's been burnt. But Rivera was never an offensive mastermind. He is a former DC. He needs an offensive genius to take the reigns on that side of the ball. And Shula is...yeah. And if you want to blame Ron for the defensive disaster, remind yourself that we're missing our sack leader on the D-Line, and have absolute poo for a secondary. Those personnel missteps ultimately fall on Gettleman, not Ron. So what do we really know about Ron? He can't run and offense, and he can't make chicken salad out of chicken poo. The same could be said for a lot of successful head coaches in the league.

 

So while I blame Ron for sometimes playing conservatively, and sometimes throwing a player under the bus, I have to remind myself, this is his first head coaching job. So either you can fire him for not being Bill Belichick right now, or you can let him bake. He's got a rapport with the players, he's got a system in place and we've been building in that direction for a number of years, and he's taken us to the playoffs once.

 

I say you leave him in the oven another year. Let him continue to bake. Because we truly don't know what he can be yet. Give him talent, and give him an OC who understands what the term "stretch the field" means, and let's see what he can do.

 

There's been a lot of talk on the board lately about avoiding becoming the Redskins and the Raiders. You know what the Redskins and Raiders would do in our situation? They'd fire the head coach. They'd start from scratch. They'd bring in a hot coordinator who would totally shake up the system and who hates the incumbent QB. He'd want new personnel, a new QB, and a new system the team isn't equipped for. The fans hope they can microwave success, but surprise, the new coach doesn't have the people he needs for his grand scheme. He needs to build it. And after a few slow years, the fans sour on him, and want a new HC, who has a new system. And the whole shitty thing repeats. That, my friends, is how you become a joke franchise.

 

And again, to reiterate, a new HC spells the end of Cam Newton's run in the Carolinas. I promise you. Don't believe me? Look at what's going on in Washington right now.

 

Let Rivera bake, one more year.

[CatMan72]

I haven't given up on Rivera and like it or not he just signed a 3 year extension so he isn't going anywhere... he just needs to remember the lessons he learned last year.

[SteveSmithGaveMeAShiner]

I did not read past the second paragraph of the OP, but a 50 yard field goal should not be considered automatic for ANYBODY. I don't care how good your kicker, how big a leg he has, is or what his season or career percentages are. A 47 yard field goal is fine if you drive down to the 30 with 6 seconds left. When your offense is humming like that and there are 90 seconds left on the clock in a home divisional game, basically with the season on the line, you step on the other team's throat and go for the first down. I trust the offense and QB more than the kicker in that situation. And yes, even if Gano made it and they won, I would have complained. I did complain on Twitter after the run on first down, when their strategy became apparent. As has been discussed ad nauseum on this board, that was not a winning strategy. It was a strategy to play not to lose and shift blame onto Gano if (when?) things didn't turn out.

[SteveSmithGaveMeAShiner]

I'll cosign with the OP, in spite of his/her truly atrocious grammar and spelling.

 

Charley Casserly said on the local sports radio here that, "No one bakes anymore. Everyone wants to microwave." What he meant by that is that the NFL now seems to demand instant success. In the past coaches and players were given years to develop, through thick and thin. Casserly said if Terry Bradshaw played today, he never would have made it more than 3 years in the NFL. Fans and front office execs expect rookies, and rookie QBs especially, to step in and be instant Pro Bowlers. They expect coaches to deliver winning records, and be playoff contenders every year from year 1. And if they don't deliver, the fans demand they cut/fire/kill the offending underperformer.

 

Truthfully, I blame Gettleman and Shula a lot more than Ron. Gettleman left the team with an absolute dearth of talent. And Shula is...yeah.

 

By all means, fire Shula. He is ultimately who has mismanaged the offense, turned Cam into a game manager, and has a track record of failure. No point in letting that bake. It's burnt. It's been burnt. But Rivera was never an offensive mastermind. He is a former DC. He needs an offensive genius to take the reigns on that side of the ball. And Shula is...yeah. And if you want to blame Ron for the defensive disaster, remind yourself that we're missing our sack leader on the D-Line, and have absolute poo for a secondary. Those personnel missteps ultimately fall on Gettleman, not Ron. So what do we really know about Ron? He can't run and offense, and he can't make chicken salad out of chicken poo. The same could be said for a lot of successful head coaches in the league.

 

So while I blame Ron for sometimes playing conservatively, and sometimes throwing a player under the bus, I have to remind myself, this is his first head coaching job. So either you can fire him for not being Bill Belichick right now, or you can let him bake. He's got a rapport with the players, he's got a system in place and we've been building in that direction for a number of years, and he's taken us to the playoffs once.

 

I say you leave him in the oven another year. Let him continue to bake. Because we truly don't know what he can be yet. Give him talent, and give him an OC who understands what the term "stretch the field" means, and let's see what he can do.

 

There's been a lot of talk on the board lately about avoiding becoming the Redskins and the Raiders. You know what the Redskins and Raiders would do in our situation? They'd fire the head coach. They'd start from scratch. They'd bring in a hot coordinator who would totally shake up the system and who hates the incumbent QB. He'd want new personnel, a new QB, and a new system the team isn't equipped for. The fans hope they can microwave success, but surprise, the new coach doesn't have the people he needs for his grand scheme. He needs to build it. And after a few slow years, the fans sour on him, and want a new HC, who has a new system. And the whole shitty thing repeats. That, my friends, is how you become a joke franchise.

 

And again, to reiterate, a new HC spells the end of Cam Newton's run in the Carolinas. I promise you. Don't believe me? Look at what's going on in Washington right now.

 

Let Rivera bake, one more year.

 

Who would you have had Gettleman sign on D this offseason? I'll wait while you scramble around for the FA list from 2014. And if you say "we should have retained Mitchell, herp de derp," just leave. Gettleman has thrown shid at the wall the last two offseasons. Last year, it stuck and the team went 12-4. This year, not so much. Also, how can you argue that Shula has a track record of failure and not Rivera? Who promoted Shula when Chud left?

 

You know what's baking in Carolina? Twenty fuggin years without back to back winning seasons. Taste that and tell me this fanbase doesn't have a right to some impatience.

[Captroop]

Who would you have had Gettleman sign on D this offseason? I'll wait while you scramble around for the FA list from 2014. And if you say "we should have retained Mitchell, herp de derp," just leave. Gettleman has thrown shid at the wall the last two offseasons. Last year, it stuck and the team went 12-4. This year, not so much. Also, how can you argue that Shula has a track record of failure and not Rivera? Who promoted Shula when Chud left?

 

You know what's baking in Carolina? Twenty fuggin years without back to back winning seasons. Taste that and tell me this fanbase doesn't have a right to some impatience.

 

Uh oh, I offended a Gettleman jock sniffer. Take cover! If you're gonna derail the conversation about Ron, I'll put it back on the tracks; what would you as head coach have done with the personnel Gettleman gave you on defense in order to make it a successful D?

 

Rivera does not have Shula's track record of failure, so don't even start with that. And Ron has been a successful Defensive Coordinator in Chicago and San Diego, and has created a successful defense in Carolina as well. He can do what he does very well. And I don't think you can say Ron is responsible for the Shula decision. There were probably other forces at work from the new GM and the ownership. Even so, if it was his call, it was his first personnel decision as a head coach. And on offense, which isn't his bailiwick.

 

And you blame Ron who has been here for 4 years for 20 years of Panthers failure to be consistently successful? If the fan base can't be patient enough to develop talent on the team and calling the plays, then we deserve sporadic success and failure. That's what microwaving gets you.

[SteveSmithGaveMeAShiner]

1. Not a Gettelman jock sniffer. Far from it. I wanted no part of Harper and DeCoud; we are all aware of their "abilities" and I would have preferred to let young unknown quantities like Lester, Boston, etc. take the lion's share of snaps at safety. At least there might be some upside there. Cason was Ron's guy in SD, so he got signed, natch. Ownership, the FO, and coaching staff wanted vets, presumably to keep the successes from 2013 rolling. I get that. But there was only so much money available and once they franchised Hardy (which I think was the right move, knowing what they knew at the time), that lil bit of money dried up in a hurry. There is no way to fix a secondary as broken as this one without knocking a draft pick or two out of the park and/or signing marquee free agents. Losing our best pass rusher and having CJ age in dog years makes a bad secondary look even worse. I don't think you can scheme around it, with the pass rush being the way it's been this year. But you might as well get the kids some snaps and see what you have, at this point.

 

2. Ron is, at bare minimum, partly responsible for having Shula on staff. He brought him in as QB coach. I'm sure he had a say in whether or not Shula would be promoted to OC in 2013. End of story.

 

3. I am not blaming Ron for all 20 years of ineptitude. I'm saying that the team needs to turn the reins over to football people capable of building sustained success. It's not here now. It's never been here. In fits and starts, maybe, but when you do dumb stuff like trade next year's first round pick away for Everette Brown, or trade next year's second round pick away in order to draft an FCS option QB and turn him into a slot receiver, it's hard to collect young blue-chip talent that can form the core of a winning team.

[Semaj]

For those that say fire Shula and keep Ron, I have a question for you.  Who hired Shula?  Shouldn't there be some accountability for hiring the wrong guy and refusing to part with him or hold him accountable?  If I am the district manager,  and I hire all  $h@tty managers and my district fails, is there not any responsibility on my part for doing a poor job of evaluating who I hired and holding them accountable.  Ultimately, it always starts at the TOP.  

[PandaPancake]

[iamhubby1]

Graham Gano missed between 40-49 yards earlier in the season and missed between 40-49 2 times last year.

It is not anywhere close to being automatic. It was a moronic decision. I don't know how anyone can defend it.

Gano had missed a grand total of 2 kicks from inside 50 yards at BOA. I would say that is pretty good. Good enough to have the faith he would make another one.

But...the decision to shut down the Offense was, and still is, a damm stupid one. Chances are, one more first down equals a win.

So I disagree that the FG was a lost cause. I agree that not going for the first was just a horrible one.

 

 

Prior to Sundays miss, Gano was 5 of 6 from 40-49 yards this season.

But, it sounds so much better to say that that equates to a 20% miss rate.

At the time, promoting Shula to OC was done for continuities sake. At the time it was thought that is was best for Cam and his development. Did it backfire? Um...yeah. But it was less than 2 years ago. Give Rivera and Gman time to rectify the mistake before you bury the hatchet.

The problem becomes. If you retain Rivera, can you even get a decent OC to come here? Or are you better served by cleaning house? I would think you can upgrade the OC and still keep Rivera. If that is what the FO wishes.

Personally, with what Rivera was given this year. He deserves a chance to see this through. Upgrade the talent and OC for him. If he fails, then let him go. I just don't see the upside to cleaning house after what transpired this year.

Maybe, just maybe, Rivera would allow a new OC to call a game that utilizes the talent, well, an upgraded roster, in todays NFL. He may be conservative by nature. But that does not automatically preclude he would be adverse to an offense that could actually work.

Ah hellz, fire everyone. Start over. Why not? It's not like we have the talent to compete for a Super Bowl. It must be the HC.

[Mr. Scot]

Gano had missed a grand total of 2 kicks from inside 50 yards at BOA. I would say that is pretty good. Good enough to have the faith he would make another one.

But...the decision to shut down the Offense was, and still is, a damm stupid one. Chances are, one more first down equals a win.

So I disagree that the FG was a lost cause. I agree that not going for the first was just a horrible one.

 

But, it sounds so much better to say that that equates to a 20% miss rate.

At the time, promoting Shula to OC was done for continuities sake. At the time it was thought that is was best for Cam and his development. Did it backfire? Um...yeah. But it was less than 2 years ago. Give Rivera and Gman time to rectify the mistake before you bury the hatchet.

The problem becomes. If you retain Rivera, can you even get a decent OC to come here? Or are you better served by cleaning house? I would think you can upgrade the OC and still keep Rivera. If that is what the FO wishes.

Personally, with what Rivera was given this year. He deserves a chance to see this through. Upgrade the talent and OC for him. If he fails, then let him go. I just don't see the upside to cleaning house after what transpired this year.

Maybe, just maybe, Rivera would allow a new OC to call a game that utilizes the talent, well, an upgraded roster, in todays NFL. He may be conservative by nature. But that does not automatically preclude he would be adverse to an offense that could actually work.

Ah hellz, fire everyone. Start over. Why not? It's not like we have the talent to compete for a Super Bowl. It must be the HC.

 

There are definite signs that he may have lost the locker room, or at least a significant portion of it.

 

If that is the case, you really do have to let him go.  You don't recover from that.

[iamhubby1]

There are definite signs that he may have lost the locker room, or at least a significant portion of it.

 

If that is the case, you really do have to let him go.  You don't recover from that.

Just because players are frustrated, does not necessarily mean Rivera has lost the locker room. Plenty of teams have rebounded from frustrating seasons.

IMO, this whole season comes down to 2 points. 1. Shula and his style of offense. 2. The talent this offense has/doesn't have.

Upgrade the OC and offensive talent, and maybe we can score some more points. To me, that would add some much needed enthusiasm to the offense, as well as taking a poo ton of pressure off the defense.

In short. Just maybe Rivera and Gman understand that Shula and his offense, along with the dearth of offensive talent in general, have more to do with our underwhelming season than anything else.

We as fans can react anyway we wish. Calling for heads to roll is our right. Unfortunately, the FO can't think that way. Giving Rivera the tools he needs to succeed could very well fix our ails.

Rivera may be conservative by nature. And he may never go for a wide open, pass happy offense. But he may be fine with an OC that has the imagination to give his players plays that work to their advantage.

tl/dr version. Get rid of Shula. Upgrade the offensive talent. Then see what Rivera can do.