I admit it: I'm more relieved that Cam and the team showed out in the 4th quarter than I would've been with a win.

[TheRed]

Here is the deal.  Has Cam shown you enough to make him one of the highest paid QB's in the league?  I know what you are going to say, but you have to think a little farther.

 

 

Is Cam the type player that needs other good/great players around him to make him succeed, or does he make others great?  We bitch, and moan about Cam needing weapons, and needing an OL, and needing decent RB's......we have all done it, but can you effectively surround Cam with those pieces while paying him a large portion of the salary cap.

 

 

We re-sign him, I'm all over it, we don't, and while it would be a big head scratcher for me, I could understand if he wanted to be the highest paid QB in the league.

 

I think that Cam stays, I want Cam to stay, I just hope that it's a positive thing for the Panthers long term.

 

Well first of all, let's settle this. To the average intelligent fan, the idea of just letting Newton leave should make about as much sense as letting Luke leave. Both players have already proven that they are franchise cornerstones with adequate talent around them.

 

You simply do not allow either of those guys to leave, that should not even be an option.

 

I don't know how much he is going to make, of course neither does anyone else here. All these doomsday salaries are pure speculation.

 

Also, the "bitching and moaning" about Newton needing talent around him is a pretty real glaring issue my friend. Amini was the only starter on offense that we managed to draft before this year, and things unfortunately are not looking too great for his future on the OL right now.

 

That means it took literally 4 years just to draft two starters (KB, Turner) to build around our quarterback.

 

You compare that to some of the other teams in the NFL with young quarterbacks and get back to me. Hint: It won't be pretty.

 

Right now what we have witnessed this season is just a shitstorm of different negative factors all coming together.

 

For all the idiotic threads arguing back and forth about our quarterback, none of it will matter if we end up hiring yet another conservative head coach who is hopelessly stuck in a completely different era. It starts at the very top, our owner has to adapt to where the league is now.

[electro's horse]

My thought as well, as to Cam being a condition.

 

 

Hopefully we can finally hire some competent offensive minds to surround Cam.

 

 

One thing that is strange to me though....especially with this team.....Why, if we want to be a conservative/defense first type football team do we continue to hire and start gunslingers?  Both Cam and Delhomme were similar, although Jake could only dream of Cam's skillset.

 

Jake was a late offseason addition who didn't even start the first game. He came in at halftime after Rodney Peete just poo all over the field, and from there the legend was born.

 

Cam was part of Hurney's weird fever dream where Chud would call the offense and Rivera the defense, and they'd play some upbeat, fun as hell, triple option insanity. 

 

But keep in mind, Cam was only the option after Luck decided to go back to school. If everything goes according to plan, it's Andrew in Charlotte, Cam in Buffalo, and yada yada yada the consequences go down. 

[Camp Fodder]

Premise One: We're done, done, done. We're fucking done. Forget all your gung-ho batman lunchbox bullshit about winning the division. We're done. We are 3-7-1 and the Vikings, Browns, and Saints are going to stomp mudholes in our supple, well-oiled sphincters. We're going to finish 5-10-1. Get over it.

Premise Two: With a 5-10-1 record, Rivera is going to lose his job. Gettleman will clean house. Many of you hate him for it already, and many of you will hate him for it in January, but he will wipe the slate clean on both sides of the ball and on both sides of the field. Offense and defense, players and coaches. He's going to assemble a new staff and separate the wheat from the chaff.

Based on those two premises:

Everyone left on the roster after Gettleman nukes it will be there because they earned it. And today, Cam Newton led this team on two game-winning drives in as many minutes in spite of being forced to play with a couple of WWII vets at receiver and their wives at offensive line. We didn't win, but I was sitting at the bar chugging IPAs and posting in the gameday thread and I saw every single idiot that called for Cam Newton to be benched and insisted that "he's done in Carolina lol" and sweet hot god damn if Cam Newton didn't open every one of those mouths and take a long piss down every one of those throats. It was fuging beautiful. I wanted to punch all of you in the crotch, but Cam effectively did it for me.

Conclusion:

Cam Newton will get the long-term contract he deserves in the offseason and come back in 2015 with professional-quality offensive line, and all of you will thank sweet heebus jeebus christ that that fourth quarter went down like that.

3-12-1

[TonyN]

 

 

 

For all the idiotic threads arguing back and forth about our quarterback, none of it will matter if we end up hiring yet another conservative head coach who is hopelessly stuck in a completely different era. It starts at the very top, our owner has to adapt to where the league is now.

 

You mean coaches like Pete Carroll and John Harbaugh and Tom Coughlin???...winners of the last 3 Super Bowls. Dig a little deeper...only a handful of Super Bowl winning coaches in history were not conservative, defensive minded coaches...the only ones that spring to mind recently are Mike McCarthy and Sean Peyton and then you have to go way back to Mike Shanahan.

 

13 of the last 15 Super Bowls were won by conservative, defensive minded head coaches.

 

[Semaj]

i can't see rivera getting fired, Will win meaningless games and he'll stay unfortunatley

And now that his job is on the line, he will do it in Riverboat style.  They some will get back onto the USS Riverboat and eventually sink with the ship.  Ron, do us all a favor.  Don't change your philosophy now.  Please stick with what got us to this point.  

[TheRed]

You mean coaches like Pete Carroll and John Harbaugh and Tom Coughlin???...winners of the last 3 Super Bowls. Dig a little deeper...only a handful of Super Bowl winning coaches in history were not conservative, defensive minded coaches...the only ones that spring to mind recently are Mike McCarthy and Sean Peyton and then you have to go way back to Mike Shanahan.

 

13 of the last 15 Super Bowls were won by conservative, defensive minded head coaches.

 

 

It's not just about being conservative. Head coaches either have that "it" factor, or they don't.

 

Key difference between those guys you just listed, and Ron Rivera? They are all actually head coaches, and are heavily involved in all aspects of the team. They take ownership of it. The truth is, Rivera is basically a defensive coordinator pretending to be a head coach.

 

If this franchise is going to experience continued success (back to back winning seasons), we need to stop looking through the discount bin for talent and coaches, and start taking chances. We hired a guy who was passed over numerous times for head coach, and this is what we get.

[thefuzz]

Well first of all, let's settle this. To the average intelligent fan, the idea of just letting Newton leave should make about as much sense as letting Luke leave. Both players have already proven that they are franchise cornerstones with adequate talent around them.

 

You simply do not allow either of those guys to leave, that should not even be an option.

 

I don't know how much he is going to make, of course neither does anyone else here. All these doomsday salaries are pure speculation.

 

Also, the "bitching and moaning" about Newton needing talent around him is a pretty real glaring issue my friend. Amini was the only starter on offense that we managed to draft before this year, and things unfortunately are not looking too great for his future on the OL right now.

 

That means it took literally 4 years just to draft two starters (KB, Turner) to build around our quarterback.

 

You compare that to some of the other teams in the NFL with young quarterbacks and get back to me. Hint: It won't be pretty.

 

Right now what we have witnessed this season is just a shitstorm of different negative factors all coming together.

 

For all the idiotic threads arguing back and forth about our quarterback, none of it will matter if we end up hiring yet another conservative head coach who is hopelessly stuck in a completely different era. It starts at the very top, our owner has to adapt to where the league is now.

 

Cam will not "simply walk".  He will be franchised tagged twice, after the 5th year option, will be traded, or will sign a long term extension.

 

 

This team was built to be QB friendly....but only for the 1980's NFL.  We spent money and picks on D so Cam wouldn't have to shoulder the load.....spent gobs on Double Trouble, because a run game is a "young QB's best friend".....etc....it hasn't worked.  I prefer to build from the inside out, and I think that we are headed there, Hurney just buttfuged us in the process, and we haven't been able to capitalize on Cam's "cheap years".

[TonyN]

It's not just about being conservative. Head coaches either have that "it" factor, or they don't.

 

Key difference between those guys you just listed, and Ron Rivera? They are all actually head coaches, and are heavily involved in all aspects of the team. They take ownership of it. The truth is, Rivera is basically a defensive coordinator pretending to be a head coach.

 

If this franchise is going to experience continued success (back to back winning seasons), we need to stop looking through the discount bin for talent and coaches, and start taking chances. We hired a guy who was passed over numerous times for head coach, and this is what we get.

 

You really need to brush up on your NFL history.

 

Pete Carroll was run out of New England because he didn't have "IT".

Tom Coughlin was run out of Jacksonville because he didn't have "IT".

Tony Dungy was run out of Tampa Bay because he didn't have "IT".

Bill Belichick was run out of Cleveland because he didn't have "IT".

Dick Vermeil was run out of Philadelphia because he didn't have "IT".

 

 

[TheRed]

You really need to brush up on your NFL history.

 

Pete Carroll was run out of New England because he didn't have "IT".

Tom Coughlin was run out of Jacksonville because he didn't have "IT".

Tony Dungy was run out of Tampa Bay because he didn't have "IT".

Bill Belichick was run out of Cleveland because he didn't have "IT".

Dick Vermeil was run out of Philadelphia because he didn't have "IT".

 

Now show me the list of guys who were fired the first time out and didn't go on to win Superbowls with another team as a head coach.

 

I'm thinking it will be substantially larger. What say you? Might want to "brush up on your NFL history".

[TonyN]

Now show me the list of guys who were fired the first time out and didn't go on to win Superbowls with another team as a head coach.

 

I'm thinking it will be substantially larger. What say you? Might want to "brush up on your NFL history".

 

LOL...So now suddenly we are talking about all coaches who have ever been fired??? What has that got to do with the price of tea in China???

 

That wasn't the argument, sweetheart.

 

Your argument was that the Panthers are not going anywhere if they stick with a conservative, defensive minded head coach.

 

The fact is: conservative, defensive minded head coaches win Super Bowls.

 

But here's the best part: I've got a very strong suspicion your interest in this board is going to wane sometime in the near future. Personnel changes are in the offing. See ya !!!

 

 

 

 

[Semaj]

Well first of all, let's settle this. To the average intelligent fan, the idea of just letting Newton leave should make about as much sense as letting Luke leave. Both players have already proven that they are franchise cornerstones with adequate talent around them.

 

You simply do not allow either of those guys to leave, that should not even be an option.

 

I don't know how much he is going to make, of course neither does anyone else here. All these doomsday salaries are pure speculation.

 

Also, the "bitching and moaning" about Newton needing talent around him is a pretty real glaring issue my friend. Amini was the only starter on offense that we managed to draft before this year, and things unfortunately are not looking too great for his future on the OL right now.

 

That means it took literally 4 years just to draft two starters (KB, Turner) to build around our quarterback.

 

You compare that to some of the other teams in the NFL with young quarterbacks and get back to me. Hint: It won't be pretty.

 

Right now what we have witnessed this season is just a shitstorm of different negative factors all coming together.

 

For all the idiotic threads arguing back and forth about our quarterback, none of it will matter if we end up hiring yet another conservative head coach who is hopelessly stuck in a completely different era. It starts at the very top, our owner has to adapt to where the league is now.

Almost every year, Green Bay delivers another gift wrapped 1st or 2nd round offensive side of the ball present to Aaron Rogers.  Now while I will admit that not every one of them has panned out, at least they have the correct focus on trying to give Rogers the tools to succeed.  Here is the link http://www.nfl.com/draft/history/fulldraft?teamId=1800&type=team

 

So Davante Adams, Eddie Lacy, Randall Cobb, and Jordy Nelson are just the skilled playmakers.  Derrek Sherrod, Bryan Bulaga,  and Daryn Colledge were all the offensive linemen taken in the first 2 rounds.  I didn't even bother to look at the the 3rd to 7th rounds.  However, I am sure there has also been some talent found there.  Green Bay is an example of a very well run franchise.  Jealous.  

 

Edit:  The Panthers have taken 2 offensive players in the first 2 rounds of the 3 drafts after Cam.  They are Amini and Kelvin.  Amini, should have never been drafted in the second friggin round.  He would have been available in the 3rd or 4th.  Kelvin is legit.  So I give them credit for 1 and not 2.  

[TheRed]

LOL...So now suddenly we are talking about all coaches who have ever been fired??? What has that got to do with the price of tea in China???

 

That wasn't the argument, sweetheart.

 

Your argument was that the Panthers are not going anywhere if they stick with a conservative, defensive minded head coach.

 

The fact is: conservative, defensive minded head coaches win Super Bowls.

 

But here's the best part: I've got a very strong suspicion your interest in this board is going to wane sometime in the near future. Personnel changes are in the offing. See ya !!!

 

Oh so those examples don't count huh? What argument? You never even offered a response that makes sense. You took one comment and gave me an unrealistic and very small sample size in some vain attempt to prove that not all conservative head coaches are unsuccessful.

 

Nobody even said that defensive minded head coaches don't win Superbowls. But that alone will not guarantee success.

 

If a head coach is unable to adapt, whether he has a defensive or offensive minded philosophy is irrelevant if the coach in question continually loses to himself and his own ego season after season by making the same poor decisions and mistakes without ultimately learning from them. It is the ability to realize their own faults and adapt accordingly that makes head coaches like the ones you listed so successful.

 

There are numerous fans who have been on this board for years through all the ups and downs, and they will continue to do so. Generic internet trolls like yourself who only show up just to talk junk when the team is losing will always come and go, you're no different.

[the_philosopher]

I was thinking the 4th quarter was the best possible scenario as well but for different reasons. I thought it proved to Jerry and Dave once and for all that Rivera is getting in our way. And coming up on a bye week would be the perfect time to fire him. And then our players would be motivated, hungry, and right in the thick of the playoff race. We don't have to be done this season, Jerry!

[carolina-chuck]

Dude. The Vikings and Browns will not stomp us. And at 3-7-1 we are still one win and a loss by the Saints and Falcons from being in first place. That said, if we are going to retain Cam, we need to have someone in place to bring out the investment we make.

Yes they will. Go back and check who our HC is.