Schefter Tweet

[CRA]

2001 Pats vs 2014 Panthers

Okay here we go, we start up front bc that pretty much is the meat and potatoes. We will start outside and work out way in.

NE LT - 2nd round pick (all pro/pro bowl career)

Car LT - undrafted (nothing positive...ever)

NE RT- 4th round pick (meh)

Car RT - undrafted DT (worst OT in Car history)

So at OT, clearly the Patriots had superior talent and that was/is proven in play as well.

You agree or disagree with that? Need to see how rational you are going to be before I do it all

[CRA]

Tom Brady was not Tom Brady in 2001? He musta been Thomas Brady or maybe Tommy Brady.

Either way, better hurry because I have an important date tonight at 8:25...

No, first year starter Tom was not Tom Freaking Brady. They played D, ran the ball, not asking tons from him. They didn't need a lot from him.

I got more shocking news, Peyton Manning wasn't Peyton Freaking Manning his first year starting either.

[BuffaloBills62]

No, first year starter Tom was not Tom Freaking Brady. They played D, ran the ball, not asking tons from him. They didn't need a lot from him.

I got more shocking news, Peyton Manning wasn't Peyton Freaking Manning his first year starting either.

Isn't that what the Panthers have done for a few seasons now?  Have a tremendous D?

 

IIRC they were the best defense in the league.

[Mother Grabber]

I love you.  You're awesome.  Coolest dude.  EVER.

 

 

There are more Bills fans in the Carolina's then Panthers fans.  Also, more Steelers, Bears, Cowboys, and Argonaut fans.

 

Feel free to be man enough to quote me so I am sure not to miss your amazing wit and stellar remarks.  What I said has nothing to do with the Bills but do not let that take away from your insecurity in your own team.

 

Cam Newton is not close to Superman

 

This is entirely arbitrary, since you or anyone can just poo poo on it, so I will give a slight effort because it is all controversial and matter of opinion with no factual proof.  Yearly stats or overall body of work?  Or do I just ignore stats?  I mean, Steve Smith has done everything and then some to the Gronkowski and Hernandez duo.

 

Look at LaFell.  Look how much better he is in New England where he is their 3rd WR and still on pace for 1,000 yards.  Sure, Gronk and Edelman help, but Benjamin still has more yards then Edelman and is just 4 yards behind Gronk.  So, Benjamin is right there with Gronk this year.  Behind that you have Steve Smith, a HOF'er.  

 

The Panthers have had Newton lined up with All Pro or Pro Bowlers: Kalil, Gross, Steve Smith, Mike Tolbert

 

Newton has had a rather good OL for hist short career, Gross and Kalil were huge for him and Bell was servicable on the Right.  He has also had one of the best RB duos in the league - something Brady has never had.  The worst year for Newton was his rookie year - Naanee and Shockey?  But they had Stewart and Williams tearing it up and good ol' Olsen and Smith combining for 2000 yards in the air, nonetheless.  This behind a very good OL of Wharton, Gross, Hangartner, Bell and Kalil.

 

It is a much smaller window to judge but he has had as much or better talent throughout his short tenure.

 

Brady has had only he and Logan Mankins the last two years.  Before that Welker and Gronk were on that list (2012) with Brian Waters joining those guys in 2011.  Before that, Matt Light, Brady and Welker and so on... Even to 2007 where Randy Moss was about of gas but with Terrific Tom able to revitilatize himself.

 

Over the course of his career - though, he had one great catcher every year and usually a very good OL.  But, there were a lot of nobodies and liabilities on that team.  Ben Watson was half Olsen is, though I think more of Olsen then I do Gronk because of depenability.  Brady had overhyped Branch and Givens, megahype Stallworth and Fauria...

Put it this way, after these guys left NE they did not do anything in the league.  The only one who did - Welker.  Where is Blount?  What will Thompkins be doing next year?  Where is Aaron Dobson?  Where is Brandon Tate?  Crumpler?  What was Troy Brown in his second stint in NE?  What about Corey Dillon for that half season he strung together?  Kevin Faulk, David Patten (he was MVP of the freaking Super Bowl!)...

Look at who has played in NE, look at the OL Brady has had thru the course of his career.  Anyone who plays with Brady looks to be a lot better then they actually are and if you do not believe me you'll just have to take my word for it because I watch a lot of football and watch both the Panthers and Patriots closely.

 

Newton has wasted more talent around him then many QB's in his time because he cannot manage the game effectively.  But, boy, can the throw it, sling it, chuck it and toss it.  The guy can throw but he isn't a very good QB some times.

 

Sources:

Pats

Panthers

 

ok, I quoted you...what do you want me to do now?  you know, getting defensive is a sign of insecurity...just sayin...

[CRA]

Isn't that what the Panthers have done for a few seasons now? Have a tremendous D?

IIRC they were the best defense in the league.

We have had bad defense in recent years outside of one season. We won that year with good D + Cam. That wasn't the 2001 Patriot model. They had a decent offense around their green QB. Let him hand it off a lot, play off the strong rush attack, etc.

What did you think of the OT breakdown?

[MHS831]

You have to hold onto the ball if your offense is built around downfield developing routes. So part of it is basically built in. Yes, he does hold the ball longer than most QBs. So does Big Ben. They do it for a reason. Bc they often can evade what brings down most.

So you have to take the bad with the good. If Big Ben didn't hold on to the ball too long.....he wouldn't be as good.

It would help our O more if we had speed and guys that could get open more consistantly.

Yes Cam has flaws. Biggest issues is all our other positional flaws and coaching flaws get projected on him too

 

 I think that is part of it, but I think he is a bit slower reading defenses that Ben R.  To be expected-he is 25 and has one year of real college ball under his belt.

 

It is sad that we have no idea how good Cam can be.  Even last year, we had issues at RG, RT, WR, and RB.  I think the weapons and protection will turn him into one of the best.

[BuffaloBills62]

ok, I quoted you...what do you want me to do now?  you know, getting defensive is a sign of insecurity...just sayin...

tell me you love me back.

 

dance for me monkey, dance.

 

2001 Pats vs 2014 Panthers

Okay here we go, we start up front bc that pretty much is the meat and potatoes. We will start outside and work out way in.

NE LT - 2nd round pick (all pro/pro bowl career)

Car LT - undrafted (nothing positive...ever)

NE RT- 4th round pick (meh)

Car RT - undrafted DT (worst OT in Car history)

So at OT, clearly the Patriots had superior talent and that was/is proven in play as well.

You agree or disagree with that? Need to see how rational you are going to be before I do it all

That is just 2001, and just the OT's.  Your UDFA @ LT was pretty darn good at RT.

 

NE had superior talent to the Panthers on the OL which helped a young Brady not get killed.  But, he was an effective game manager that allowed his team the best chance to win.  Overall, the Patriots had nobodies at skill positions:

Troy Brown

Bert Emanuel

Charles Johnson

David Patten

Torrence Small

Antowain Smith

Kevin Faulk

JR Redmond

Patrick Pass

Marc Edwards

Jermaine Wiggins

Rod Rutledge

 

We have had bad defense in recent years outside of one season. We won that year with good D + Cam. That wasn't the 2001 Patriot model. They had a decent offense around their green QB. Let him hand it off a lot, play off the strong rush attack, etc.

What did you think of the OT breakdown?

sorry i had missed this.  i was too busy writing my love notes to Mother

 

 I think that is part of it, but I think he is a bit slower reading defenses that Ben R.  To be expected-he is 25 and has one year of real college ball under his belt.

 

It is sad that we have no idea how good Cam can be.  Even last year, we had issues at RG, RT, WR, and RB.  I think the weapons and protection will turn him into one of the best.

Ben Roethlisberger can read defenses, not sure where he came in to this.

[Mother Grabber]

tell me you love me back.

 

dance for me monkey, dance.

 

what if I don't really love you, and I'm just using you for cheap feels?

[BuffaloBills62]

 

what if I don't really love you, and I'm just using you for cheap feels?

it's ok, my love for you is strong enough for us both.  as long as you keep those dance skills up then we will have a love to last for ages.

[WhoAmI?]

By the way WhoAmI, if your argument is that Newton shouldn't be paid based on where he is ranked passer wise, you may not want to look at a certain quarterback who plays for the Colts passer rating ranking his first few years lol.

Hint: He was lower than Newton.

Guess there's no way the Colts give that guy another contract, am I right?

 

When did I ever say that Newton shouldn't be paid based on where he is ranked? I'm saying he shouldn't be paid $100+ mil because he is an average QB. What don't you get? And Luck is absolutely deserving of his contract coming up. He has actually made the playoffs every year he has been there and ACTUALLY carried that team, unlike Cam. He is progressing every year, unlike Cam. He can run almost as good as Cam. For God's sake, he is on pace to break Peyton's record IN ONLY HIS 3RD YEAR and is only getting better. Not to mention his superior leadership skills. As for Cam, he hasn't gotten better in any area in 4 years. Still overthrows WAY too much, still can't read defenses, still has no touch, still holds the ball too long, etc.

 

Theme of my argument: You don't pay $100+ mil for an average QB whose running ability is declining.

[Car123]

When did I ever say that Newton shouldn't be paid based on where he is ranked? I'm saying he shouldn't be paid $100+ mil because he is an average QB. What don't you get? And Luck is absolutely deserving of his contract coming up. He has actually made the playoffs every year he has been there and ACTUALLY carried that team, unlike Cam. He is progressing every year, unlike Cam. He can run almost as good as Cam. For God's sake, he is on pace to break Peyton's record IN ONLY HIS 3RD YEAR and is only getting better. Not to mention his superior leadership skills. As for Cam, he hasn't gotten better in any area in 4 years. Still overthrows WAY too much, still can't read defenses, still has no touch, still holds the ball too long, etc.

Theme of my argument: You don't pay $100+ mil for an average QB whose running ability is declining.

If you dont pay him another team will. So you would let Newton walk and prefer us searching for an adequate qb again like it's 1998-2002?

[CRA]

tell me you love me back.

dance for me monkey, dance.

That is just 2001, and just the OT's. Your UDFA @ LT was pretty darn good at RT.

NE had superior talent to the Panthers on the OL which helped a young Brady not get killed.

.

No, Byron Bell was never a darn good RT. He was awful thete too.

So you admit the 2001 Patriots had superior OL talent? Then we might as well end it and move to another year. Bc that pretty much means the 2001 Patriots didn't have a worse cast around there QB than the 2014 Panthers. Which is why you had a 1100 yard rushing, 12 TD RB. Carolina can't run with their RBs. Cam can only dream of such things

[BuffaloBills62]

No, Byron Bell was never a darn good RT. He was awful thete too.

So you admit the 2001 Patriots had superior OL talent? Then we might as well end it and move to another year. Bc that pretty much means the 2001 Patriots didn't have a worse cast around there QB than the 2014 Panthers.

look at the skill positions, please.

 

greg olsen, stewart, williams, benjamin, cotchery, avant, bersin = far better then what brady had

[beastson]

Wtf why is panthers fans arguing with a bills fans over the panthers

 

And why is a bills fan on here? Not even in the same conference

 

Im calling troll