1st take destroys the Panthers FO, "Panthers Sold Cam Newton Out"

[TheRed]

The problem with all the Rivera bashing is that most of it has no context. We went from a 2010 team that won 2 games to 6 in 2011 to 7 in 2012 which were far from abysmal seasons. Then we win 12 and the division. That is a 3 year uptick in wins and consistent improvement. If Gettleman doesn't gut the team we wouldn't be losing now.

So your are right it isn't that he suddenly isn't good. He is good and helped us improve each year and would be doing it again if he were being given the talent he had last year.

 

I don't recall 5 blowout losses in a span of 8 games in any of those first 3 seasons.

 

Ron, and his staff have been getting thoroughly outcoached week in and week out.

[panthers55]

I don't recall 5 blowout losses in a span of 8 games in any of those first 3 seasons.

 

Ron, and his staff have been getting thoroughly outcoached week in and week out.

But you just countered yourself unless you think that the coaches suddenly lost their minds.  If he wasn'tt outcoached the past 3 years and now he suddenly is maybe he isn't the problem since the coaching has been largely the same.  Just maybe the personnel is what changed and so did the results.  Maybe his problem is that no matter what he says or does, he can't execute on the field and apparently neither can the players we have. f it was simply coaching then the results during his tenure would be the same.

 

As one poster uses in his name- Think about it

[CRA]

I don't recall 5 blowout losses in a span of 8 games in any of those first 3 seasons.

Ron, and his staff have been getting thoroughly outcoached week in and week out.

Ron was given a 4th q preaseaon OL and secondary this year....that is the glaring change.

Ron has never been blasted out of the water like this. His issue was always that one late drive he mishandled.

Talent is our issue. If you are given me, CRA, as your QB....it won't matter the playcalls or scheme or coaching. You wouldn't have the talent to stand a chance on offense. I am not a NFL QB. Just like most of our line and secondaey aren't. I am just a more extreme example

[CRA]

But you just countered yourself unless you think that the coaches suddenly lost their minds. If he wasn'tt outcoached the past 3 years and now he suddenly is maybe he isn't the problem since the coaching has been largely the same. Just maybe the personnel is what changed and so did the results. Maybe his problem is that no matter what he says or does, he can't execute on the field and apparently neither can the players we have. f it was simply coaching then the results during his tenure would be the same.

As one poster uses in his name- Think about it

THIS x 839373992829918283

[TheRed]

But you just countered yourself unless you think that the coaches suddenly lost their minds. If he wasn'tt outcoached the past 3 years and now he suddenly is maybe he isn't the problem since the coaching has been largely the same. Just maybe the personnel is what changed and so did the results. Maybe his problem is that no matter what he says or does, he can't execute on the field and apparently neither can the players we have. f it was simply coaching then the results during his tenure would be the same.

As one poster uses in his name- Think about it

He was definitely getting outcoached those years too.

Hell it took him starting 1-3 in his third season to finally stop being so stubborn about playing not to lose.

[CRA]

He was definitely getting outcoached those years too.

Hell it took him starting 1-3 in his third season to finally stop being so stubborn about playing not to lose.

He got out coached at key moments....not out gameplanned. Which is why Rivera held the lead in the majority of games he coached in the 2nd half

[TheRed]

Ron was given a 4th q preaseaon OL and secondary this year....that is the glaring change.

Ron has never been blasted out of the water like this. His issue was always that one late drive he mishandled.

Talent is our issue. If you are given me, CRA, as your QB....it won't matter the playcalls or scheme or coaching. You wouldn't have the talent to stand a chance on offense. I am not a NFL QB. Just like most of our line and secondaey aren't. I am just a more extreme example

I'm not putting everything on Ron, but this team still has enough talent to at least compete. We were able to do so against Detroit, and we should have won against Cincinnati. What has changed since those games? Why so many blowouts? At the end of the day this staff has got to stop being so hellbent on trying the same thing over and over, it's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. At this point I'm concerned if the players even still buy into the gameplan. The coaches show virtually no imagination. Rivera is also far too loyal to players who obviously shouldn't be starting, he sets the depth chart. Gettleman should still be getting his share of the heat though. Going into this season with this OL group is inexcusable.

[CRA]

I'm not putting everything on Ron, but this team still has enough talent to at least compete. We were able to do so against Detroit, and we should have won against Cincinnati. What has changed since those games? Why so many blowouts? At the end of the day this staff has got to stop being so hellbent on trying the same thing over and over, it's like trying to put a square peg in a round hole. At this point I'm concerned if the players even still buy into the gameplan. The coaches show virtually no imagination. Rivera is also far too loyal to players who obviously shouldn't be starting, he sets the depth chart. Gettleman should still be getting his share of the heat though. Going into this season with this OL group is inexcusable.

We literally have the worst OL I have seen since I became a hardcore fan of the NFL. You can compete with that. You can get lucky. Can't be consistant.

D has been more injury and missing guys. Hardy and the nickel CB spot were brutal this year. Bene coming back helps. Not that he is great but he isn't a bad S attempting to play it.

[panthers55]

We literally have the worst OL I have seen since I became a hardcore fan of the NFL. You can compete with that. You can get lucky. Can't be consistant.

D has been more injury and missing guys. Hardy and the nickel CB spot were brutal this year. Bene coming back helps. Not that he is great but he isn't a bad S attempting to play it.

Injuries have been a big issue on the OL as well.  How many games have we actually put the same 5 guys on the field.  Chemistry is even more important on offense than defense.  On the other hand getting blown back off the line is just a lack of talent and no amount of chemistry will fix that.  Honestly I would replace everyone but Kalil as starters some of these guys would make good backups but as starters, not so much.

[panthers55]

He got out coached at key moments....not out gameplanned. Which is why Rivera held the lead in the majority of games he coached in the 2nd half

Plus even if he were getting outcoached at times that is expected when you are a first time head coach and learning as you go.

 

It is funny how many folks keeping saying that Cam is only a 4th year player and is still learning and shouldn't be expected to be elite yet crucify Rivera who is also in his 4th year and still learning as well.  This year they are both learning what to do when you don't have the talent to be competitive.

 

If you give Cam a pass then you have to give Rivera one as well.  If you want to fire Rivera you need to be in favor of trading or let Cam walk as well.  If Cam can't do anything with this crappy line then why blame Rivera and Shula. All of them are just working with what they were given.  I am positive that Rivera wasn't in favor of gutting the team and going with scrubs. 

[PantherFanOne]

It is easy for talking heads to say Cam  needs a supporting cast on both defense and offense to be successful,however, you could say this about any NFL QB,whether it's Brady,Brees, Manning,Etc.

 

This whole Panthers team is a train wreck from the owner Jerry Richardson,Gettleman,Rivera,Shula ,undrafted players and rejects from other teams. Cam Newton has to take part of the blame also,even though he has a bad OL,he still has two good receivers in Olsen and Benjamin,he has regressed and has serious issues with his game that need addressed. I  really hope what we are seeing out of him can change if and when he gets a better supporting cast,otherwise his career,especially here, could be in serious trouble.

 

 

[panthers55]

Peyton's job is not exactly the most difficult in the world. He's just a sitting duck for good defenses to take advantage of. You give Cam those weapons and that OL he would win superbowls. I'm not talking piling on worthless stats that gets you nowhere. i'm talking winning efficiently when you're unstoppable on all front. Trust me, teams want Cam.

I don't think that is a given.  Honestly Cam would be a big stepdown from Peyton and would get crucified after he struggled like now.  We were excited after suffering through Clausen but honestly after Manning many quarterbacks will look poor.  Given that many of cam's issues are actually Manning's strengths (accuracy, getting the ball out quick, audibelizing and knowing where to go preread etc.)  In comparison Cam would be a poor imitation.  If he had followed The Golden Calf of Bristol he would be a step up.

 

As for how many teams would choose Cam over their current quarterback it might be 4 or 5 but not most. And they would likely be worse than us with no guarantee he would have better personnel.

[Toundra]

So true..

 

Save the private Newton !

 

[Swan]

So all Skip said was, if you give Cam a good defense, a good running game, a good o-line, and good wideouts, he could be pro-bowl caliber. 

 

Lol, is that even an argument? Duh, that holds for any quarterback.