If you change OCs do you change style or philosophy

[Nick_81]

I think that your wikepedia definitions may have been somewhat accurate 10 or 15 years ago when there really were very different systems but everything has become so homogeneous that most teams run similar plays with the difference being the concepts and how the play is communicated.

Here is a good article talking about how they vary.

http://grantland.com/features/how-terminology-erhardt-perkins-system-helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

Most teams run amalgums of more than one system for example New Orleans is knows as a WCO but borrows plays and concepts fro Coryell and EP.

So did we look like an EP at times, yeah. Did we look coryell or even spread at times, yeah. But the major concepts signal calling etc are from the Coryell system although I understand Shula simplified some of it so again it is likely not a total coryell.

Good football conversation. A nice reprieve from the typical Shula sucks and fire Rivera threads.

Good article. I enjoyed the read. Hell, I don't know if we can technically call it any particular system, if we really want to be honest with ourselves. At some point they eventually cross over one another anyway. They both use power run, and both try to attack vertically, although maybe not in the same manner. Even Erhardt eventually went to a spread within his system.

Any system can work with the right personnel, that's also talented, so it's difficult to step on Shula's throat. I don't necessarily like his overly conservative approach, and sometimes questionable calls, although I feel like he's tried to be more aggressive this season. I haven't looked lately, and we've been horribly unsuccessful, but at one point we were on pace to nearly triple pass plays of 20+ yards this season, compared to last. Attempt wise, it may already be triple. It's just not going to work with the current roster... it can't.

[panthers55]

Good article. I enjoyed the read. Hell, I don't know if we can technically call it any particular system, if we really want to be honest with ourselves. At some point they eventually cross over one another anyway. They both use power run, and both try to attack vertically, although maybe not in the same manner. Even Erhardt eventually went to a spread within his system.

Any system can work with the right personnel, that's also talented, so it's difficult to step on Shula's throat. I don't necessarily like his overly conservative approach, and sometimes questionable calls, although I feel like he's tried to be more aggressive this season. I haven't looked lately, and we've been horribly unsuccessful, but at one point we were on pace to nearly triple pass plays of 20+ yards this season, compared to last. Attempt wise, it may already be triple. It's just not going to work with the current roster... it can't.

The thing is that I find it hard to blame Newton or Shula for this debacle when the O line has been dreadful. I tried to be positive and defend Bell and Amini but honestly I got nothing. I didn't think guys could be so bad and be a starter but our line on the left side is embarrassing. Each is awful and together they are dreadful. And receivers giving up on routes and giving Cam no confidence. Cam needs to really show his leadership and jack slap these guys at least verbally to help him out. Pick hm up and not leave him hanging. I

[Nick_81]

The thing is that I find it hard to blame Newton or Shula for this debacle when the O line has been dreadful. I tried to be positive and defend Bell and Amini but honestly I got nothing. I didn't think guys could be so bad and be a starter but our line on the left side is embarrassing. Each is awful and together they are dreadful. And receivers giving up on routes and giving Cam no confidence. Cam needs to really show his leadership and jack slap these guys at least verbally to help him out. Pick hm up and not leave him hanging. I

I can agree with this 100%. I've been hearing a lot of "this is bad/that is bad, but Cam is playing poorly to, and making bad decisions also." Well, I can't completely get on board with that. His first 4 - 5 games back were mostly phenomenal. The more his line has poo on him, the worse his play has gotten since. Call me crazy, but I find it hard to believe one would just happen to go from being a top 5 QB in the league, according to stats/media/us fans, to bottom of the barrel, according to the same measure. My opinion? He started with high confidence and trust in his team, and the many ass whoopins have literally, and figuratively, ran him into the ground. How can we expect him to keep composure, and stay technically sound, when there's constant pressure, or threat there of? I know there are many problems, but Cam is damn near rock bottom of that list IMO.

I can relate, as I also was quick to defend the choice of tackles. Silatolu wasn't on my mind as much, because he did fair in his rookie season. My disdain for him has grown immensely. He's horrid. On equal ground as Chandler and Bell. If Norwell isn't starting at LG when Turner is back, my sanity may be all but lost...

[panthers55]

I can agree with this 100%. I've been hearing a lot of "this is bad/that is bad, but Cam is playing poorly to, and making bad decisions also." Well, I can't completely get on board with that. His first 4 - 5 games back were mostly phenomenal. The more his line has poo on him, the worse his play has gotten since. Call me crazy, but I find it hard to believe one would just happen to go from being a top 5 QB in the league, according to stats/media/us fans, to bottom of the barrel, according to the same measure. My opinion? He started with high confidence and trust in his team, and the many ass whoopins have literally, and figuratively, ran him into the ground. How can we expect him to keep composure, and stay technically sound, when there's constant pressure, or threat there of? I know there are many problems, but Cam is damn near rock bottom of that list IMO.

I can relate, as I also was quick to defend the choice of tackles. Silatolu wasn't on my mind as much, because he did fair in his rookie season. My disdain for him has grown immensely. He's horrid. On equal ground as Chandler and Bell. If Norwell isn't starting at LG when Turner is back, my sanity may be all but lost...

After Monday night can they get worse? Anything would be an upgrade.

[Mr. Scot]

I think that your wikepedia definitions may have been somewhat accurate 10 or 15 years ago when there really were very different systems but everything has become so homogeneous that most teams run similar plays with  the difference being the concepts and how the play is communicated.

 

Here is a good article talking about how they vary.

 

http://grantland.com/features/how-terminology-erhardt-perkins-system-helped-maintain-dominance-tom-brady-patriots/

 

Most teams run amalgums of more than one system for example New Orleans is knows as a WCO but borrows plays and concepts fro Coryell and EP.

 

So did we look like an EP at times, yeah.  Did we look coryell or even spread at times, yeah.  But the major concepts signal calling etc are from the Coryell system although I understand Shula simplified some of it  so again it is likely not a total coryell. 

 

Good football conversation.  A nice reprieve from the typical Shula sucks and fire Rivera threads.

 

That is a good article.  I remember reading it a while back when I was researching something (I forget what).

[davos]

With a new HC or OC, you change both.    

 

A big problem is that we have a weird transitional EP/AC playbook with a guy that has never understood how to run it...and is so damn timid and stubborn, terrible situational playcaller, and the worst on 2nd and shorts I've ever seen in my life.    

 

One of the biggest mistakes you see the worst teams make is having a methodical offense that can't score at will.  One or two mistakes and you're done.  

 

Being able to have an OC+talent package that can have quick playmaking ability should be a must in a methodical approach/style.  

 

With Cam, I actually think a Kubiak/Dennison WC could be a good fit.  I'd give that duo another shot as HD/OC.  They know OLs and how to produce RBs out of nowhere.  Exactly what Cam needs.