They Gambled. They Lost. It's That Simple.

[CelibatePimp]

You are talking as if Rivera is our GM/coach

Rivera doesn't cut guys, sign guys, draft guys.

I think Hurney did what his coaches wanted. Gave them the team they wanted to the best of his ability.

Not sure we can say that about Dave....I don't think he believes in the Hurney approach. Dave believes he knows talent likely better than anyone in our organization

 

But based on performance during the season, he knows areas of need and should be able to tell the FO who to get. He hasn't done that.

 

[Mr. Scot]

Godfrey was a Hurney guy. Old era Fox/Hurney guy and Hurney always treated them too well. Foolishly well. Not sure we can put that on Rivera.

Yeah, Gettlemen listens to everyone. Doesn't mean he does what Ron wants off the record

Not sure Ron doing PC caoch talk translates over to all that. Ron talks up everyone. All time time. Just what he does.

 

Godfrey was also a Rivera guy.

 

Gettleman's attitude about Godfrey became obvious when he took a massive pay cut.

 

And it's not just coach speak.  It's a pattern with Rivera.

[Mr. Scot]

Assuming it was a collaborative approach, then Gettleman still deserves just as much blame. I work as a programmer and I no matter how much I value my colleague's input, if they write bad code I'm not going to allow it into the program if I know that it's going to reflect poorly on me. Talent evaluation should include the ability to evaluate the quality of other people's evaluations. After all, a GM has to hire and fire scouts.

 

I absolutely blame him for the collaborative approach.

 

I could have seen taking that approach with a long time head coach who had a proven track record.  He took it with a coach going into his third year with nothing but two mediocre seasons on his resume' to date.

 

He also signed off on keeping intact a scouting department on the pro and college side that had a history of underperforming, and all because he didn't want to be the guy that just came in and threw everybody out.

 

Those choices are on him.

[Carolina Cajun]

Why did we lack the fiscal resources? You're right, cj's contract sucks, Stewart, and Williams contracts suck, gross being owed money sucks, but we paid for smitty to leave, so there goes some cap room but bigger than that, with all the holes we had, we spent 13 million bucks on 1 player. Most fans were ok with the thought of having to lose hardy in the offseason, not happy, but we understood. When we tagged him, I'd say a lot of the fans reluctantly said ok. It's easy to blame the nfl for the suspension, but fact is, hardy was a torn acl or broken femur from being right where we are right now. Because of this we bargain binned the receiving core, and flat out ignored the offensive line. No way you could tell me that 13 mil couldn't have made an improvement on BOTH fronts. We couldn't afford a 13 mil player because of the big contracts we already had on the books. Think of it this way, you can sign Peyton manning and Tom Brady to the same team, but what I promise is that you don't have enough money left to field a competitive team. The numbers didn't add up correctly with what we did and now we're screwed.

Oh and fug Harper. I hated him with the saints, now I have to ingest this turd asshole playing for my team while the greatest Panther of all time gets paid by us to smash ass on a different team.

[CRA]

Godfrey was also a Rivera guy.

Gettleman's attitude about Godfrey became obvious when he took a massive pay cut.

And it's not just coach speak. It's a pattern with Rivera.

It is a pattern he praises everyone that suits up. Guys who clearly aren't good..Rivera gives them the positive rub.

I mean everyone that is good or horrible....Ron finds stuff to praise them on. Part of his coaching style IMO.

[L-TownCat]

Gambling infers an inability to assess much of the situation and therefor accurately predict the outcome.

 

 

I don't think that applies here. The front office had more than enough information to see what would happen. Hell, we all saw it too. Note how many times I insisted the OL was not solidified in camp and even into preseason.

 

If anything, its negligence, not a lost gamble.

 

I get it I do.  The word "gamble" may not have been the appropriate one to use, however, it still boiled down to a financial decision.  

 

Spend what little money we had on a proven defense, or use it on the offense with more holes to fill than fingers to fill them.

[Ruff]

Everyone wants to find effigies to burn and jobs to be lost and players to be cut and rabble, rabble, rabble.

It boils down to one very simple reality: the front office (assign blame between coaches and GM as you wish) lacked the fiscal resources to address all areas of need and decided that the offensive line could hold up if necessary. It was a fatal gamble and they lost. There aren't any real schematic answers that fit with the offensive roster we currently have: we lack the offensive line to establish the running game and play action schemes our core philosophy is built around and other, less line-intensive schemes such as a dink-and-dunk WCO are entirely unsuited to the receiving corps we have.

So keep in mind between all of your hell-raising that before amputating every limb off the patient one should wonder if their broken ankle might be the cause that keeps them from walking.

You have the wrong perception of what happened. The team gambled that the DE position would be able to carry multiple phases of the game (the secondary, short field for the offense, etc), and this is proven by the fact that, borrowing a gambling term, they went 'all in' on Hardy. Sure, we had limited cap space, but we gave 13m to Hardy.

Now, that plan has backfired. Straight into the face of a man who claims that hog mollies and offensive linemen help you win games. Yet, every game we watch as Cam almost dies on the field.

Rivera is at fault for agreeing that Mr Left Handed is the man for the job. Gettleman is at fault for playing a style of NFL football that hasn't been effective in about six years.

[the_philosopher]

As bad as our oline play has been, we also need to remember that our defense really let us down  multiple times this year (not last night, though). I'm sure part of the logic was that our defense would keep us in most games no matter how rough the oline turned out to be, and that just hasn't been true.

[J.Cage]

Applaud this man.

[FootballMaestro]

Good post by the OP.

 

However, the coaching staff is equally not capable of dealing with the stated adversity, conditions.

 

So though all that may be true. The coaching staff needs a perfect storm (as last year) to hide their inexperience and inability.

 

It appears each week, since Rivera came into the league he's at a Head Coaching disadvantage

[Woodie]

Again, see above.

 

Per their own words, the roster decisions made this offseason were made using a collaborative approach, with Gettleman having the final say.

 

The year before Gettleman, the interim GM was Brandon Beane.  At that point, Rivera was the guy with final say, so he's had input on player decisions for quite a while now.

 

But it's pretty clear at this point that he shouldn't.

 

You put too much stock in public statements...and read too much into them. 

 

Yes, Rivera likes try hard guys, guess what, every coach does.  But at no point has Ron ever said he prefers these guys over a more talented player, he just praises the one thing about them that he can.  It's a mistake to think there's not more to his opinion than what he says to the media.  He's stuck with some of these guys, so tries to make the best of it and do his best to keep their confidence up. 

 

As far as Gettleman, yes, he has said that he collaborates with coaches, etc., but he's also said that he is ultimately the one who makes the decision.  He listens, then makes up his own mind.  There's nothing to indicate that he allows himself to be influenced by anyone against his own better judgment...including Rivera.  If he decides to keep, sign, or draft a guy, it's not because that's what Rivera wants, it's because in his opinion, that is the best move for the team.  Of course, logic tells us he will try to get guys that fit what Rivera wants to do as a team, and if possible, guys that Rivera likes as well, but ultimately, he decides which players fit best.  

 

[Woodie]

Hurney gave Charles Godfrey a big contract because Rivera liked him.  That didn't work out so well.

 

Gettleman himself has made clear on more than one occasion that he doesn't make decisions unilaterally.  He always consults with Rivera as well as the scouting staff when it comes to draft and free agency.  In season the scouts are all out doing their scouting, so it's pretty much just he and Rivera.

 

He has overridden Rivera in some cases, with Godfrey likely being a prime example.  Also Fua, Munnerlyn and others.

 

We'd probably be better off if he actually listened to Rivera a lot less.

 

How do you know this?  Hurney never said this, nor did Rivera.  To me, this sounds like convenient speculation to support a personal hypothesis. 

 

[Mr. Scot]

You put too much stock in public statements...and read too much into them. 

 

Yes, Rivera likes try hard guys, guess what, every coach does.  But at no point has Ron ever said he prefers these guys over a more talented player, he just praises the one thing about them that he can.  It's a mistake to think there's not more to his opinion than what he says to the media.  He's stuck with some of these guys, so tries to make the best of it and do his best to keep their confidence up. 

 

As far as Gettleman, yes, he has said that he collaborates with coaches, etc., but he's also said that he is ultimately the one who makes the decision.  He listens, then makes up his own mind.  There's nothing to indicate that he allows himself to be influenced by anyone against his own better judgment...including Rivera.  If he decides to keep, sign, or draft a guy, it's not because that's what Rivera wants, it's because in his opinion, that is the best move for the team.  Of course, logic tells us he will try to get guys that fit what Rivera wants to do as a team, and if possible, guys that Rivera likes as well, but ultimately, he decides which players fit best.  

 

 

Rivera doesn't know who's talented and who isn't.

 

As a DC, you can get away with that.

 

As a head coach who sets the depth chart, hires coaches and has input on roster decisions, not so much.

[Woodie]

You have the wrong perception of what happened. The team gambled that the DE position would be able to carry multiple phases of the game (the secondary, short field for the offense, etc), and this is proven by the fact that, borrowing a gambling term, they went 'all in' on Hardy. Sure, we had limited cap space, but we gave 13m to Hardy.

Now, that plan has backfired. Straight into the face of a man who claims that hog mollies and offensive linemen help you win games. Yet, every game we watch as Cam almost dies on the field.

Rivera is at fault for agreeing that Mr Left Handed is the man for the job. Gettleman is at fault for playing a style of NFL football that hasn't been effective in about six years.

 

I don't think he gambled that the DE (actually front 7) could carry multiple phases, I think they truly believed it because that's exactly what happened last year...and if Hardy were on the field, most of these problems likely would not have manifested...at least to this degree.  And nobody could have predicted what happened with Hardy, and the domino effect it would have on the entire team.

 

IMO, they were just trying to buy time to clear up some cap space and be in position to make some higher level moves this off-season.  Unfortunately, it didn't work out.