They Gambled. They Lost. It's That Simple.

[Udogg]

Everyone wants to find effigies to burn and jobs to be lost and players to be cut and rabble, rabble, rabble.

 

It boils down to one very simple reality: the front office (assign blame between coaches and GM as you wish) lacked the fiscal resources to address all areas of need and decided that the offensive line could hold up if necessary. It was a fatal gamble and they lost. There aren't any real schematic answers that fit with the offensive roster we currently have: we lack the offensive line to establish the running game and play action schemes our core philosophy is built around and other, less line-intensive schemes such as a dink-and-dunk WCO are entirely unsuited to the receiving corps we have.

 

So keep in mind between all of your hell-raising that before amputating every limb off the patient one should wonder if their broken ankle might be the cause that keeps them from walking.

 

Wow.. didn't expect a rationale post till at least Thursday.   Bravo sir.  Bravo.

[CRA]

We have had RIvera for four years now, that is unacceptable. A good coach should be able to anticipate areas of weakness before they even become that. Rivera seems to think any average joe can play any position. I'm even surprised he's been in the NFL that long.

You are talking as if Rivera is our GM/coach

Rivera doesn't cut guys, sign guys, draft guys.

I think Hurney did what his coaches wanted. Gave them the team they wanted to the best of his ability.

Not sure we can say that about Dave....I don't think he believes in the Hurney approach. Dave believes he knows talent likely better than anyone in our organization

[Peppers90 NC]

Just one more?

at least one more, means one or more. i just mean he shouldnt be fired like some are suggesting.

[Growl]

What an island paradise it must be for Mike Shula in a world where he can take credit for every miraculous 30 yard run from an almost sack Cam Newton makes but isn't held accountable for any of his offenses failings because hey, I'm not out there. Execution rabble rabble.

[PghPanther]

Correct observation.........if anyone knows my posts they know I place priority on the O-line talent and depth...........you don't have it you don't have a winning football time.

 

I'm not one bit surprised at what is going on here...........talent in skill position counts for nothing if you can't execute..............and you can't execute without time for passing or holes for running.........that a top O-line gives you.

 

Stars on defense are worthless if they are on the field to the point where their tongues hang out from exhaustion because the offense can't move the chains long enough to give them a rest.

 

Any reasonable QB in this league can be successful with time to throw.. and a running game to balance where backs are able to get into the secondary if they have an O-line that can perform their job more consistent than not during the duration of a game.

 

The O-line is not sexy.... nor interesting to most fans or the media..........but when I watch a game I study and watch the pass blocking and run surge of an O-line and know what team will win.

 

I will never understand why O-line players aren't priorities in draft picks or salaries.............. 

[cardiackat88.]

Everyone wants to find effigies to burn and jobs to be lost and players to be cut and rabble, rabble, rabble.

It boils down to one very simple reality: the front office (assign blame between coaches and GM as you wish) lacked the fiscal resources to address all areas of need and decided that the offensive line could hold up if necessary. It was a fatal gamble and they lost. There aren't any real schematic answers that fit with the offensive roster we currently have: we lack the offensive line to establish the running game and play action schemes our core philosophy is built around and other, less line-intensive schemes such as a dink-and-dunk WCO are entirely unsuited to the receiving corps we have.

So keep in mind between all of your hell-raising that before amputating every limb off the patient one should wonder if their broken ankle might be the cause that keeps them from walking.

Yes, Oline is a huge concern.

We also have a horrendous secondary.

You are correct, we did take a gamble not addressing it, as well as having almost all of your money invested into two aged runningbacks.

I feel if there is an obvious weakness, any decent NFL opposing coaching staff will be able to make a strategy to exploit it.

I realize the line we have now is total patchwork, but the coaches could find a way to make it as effective as possible and protect their QB asset who had a surgically repaired ankle in the offseason.

Screens, draws, slow down the defense some. Seriously, a well designed draw play may keep the dogs from unleashing on Cam like they did last night. I truly believe we need to get creative and resort to some trickery.

[fieryprophet]

See above.

 

The problem with Rivera is that his talent evaluation skills are all but nonexistent.

 

Look at the guys he championed even before Gettleman got here.  Charles Godfrey's huge contract came in part because Rivera liked him so much.

 

You want further proof, look at his coaching choices.  The GM has no say in those.

 

A defensive coordinator doesn't need to know how to make good roster decisions.  A head coach does.

 

Rivera can't.

 

 

Talent evaluation is what the GM is supposed to do. Bill Belichick is one of the greatest coaches in NFL history but his drafts have been subpar more often than not. And Godfrey was coming off a 5 INT season; there was no way Hurney was going to resist throwing money at him. Rivera also championed Cam Newton and has been his biggest defender even through this stretch.

 

If there were some brilliant talent languishing away on our roster then you could make a clear point that the coaches are misevaluating players, but  we're throwing literally everything at the wall at this point. I hold GMs responsible for the talent brought in, and coaches responsible for the talent that actually plays.

 

And while I agree that there simply has to be someone better than Shula available I understand why the decision was made to make him the OC, and for a time, with the right pieces in place, it actually worked halfway decently. But there are very, very few offensive minds that could achieve anything with this disaster.

[Mr. Scot]

You are talking as if Rivera is our GM/coach

Rivera doesn't cut guys, sign guys, draft guys.

I think Hurney did what his coaches wanted. Gave them the team they wanted to the best of his ability.

Not sure we can say that about Dave....I don't think he believes in the Hurney approach. Dave believes he knows talent likely better than anyone in our organization

 

Hurney gave Charles Godfrey a big contract because Rivera liked him.  That didn't work out so well.

 

Gettleman himself has made clear on more than one occasion that he doesn't make decisions unilaterally.  He always consults with Rivera as well as the scouting staff when it comes to draft and free agency.  In season the scouts are all out doing their scouting, so it's pretty much just he and Rivera.

 

He has overridden Rivera in some cases, with Godfrey likely being a prime example.  Also Fua, Munnerlyn and others.

 

We'd probably be better off if he actually listened to Rivera a lot less.

[Mr. Scot]

Talent evaluation is what the GM is supposed to do. Bill Belichick is one of the greatest coaches in NFL history but his drafts have been subpar more often than not. And Godfrey was coming off a 5 INT season; there was no way Hurney was going to resist throwing money at him. Rivera also championed Cam Newton and has been his biggest defender even through this stretch.

 

If there were some brilliant talent languishing away on our roster then you could make a clear point that the coaches are misevaluating players, but  we're throwing literally everything at the wall at this point. I hold GMs responsible for the talent brought in, and coaches responsible for the talent that actually plays.

 

And while I agree that there simply has to be someone better than Shula available I understand why the decision was made to make him the OC, and for a time, with the right pieces in place, it actually worked halfway decently. But there are very, very few offensive minds that could achieve anything with this disaster.

 

Again, see above.

 

Per their own words, the roster decisions made this offseason were made using a collaborative approach, with Gettleman having the final say.

 

The year before Gettleman, the interim GM was Brandon Beane.  At that point, Rivera was the guy with final say, so he's had input on player decisions for quite a while now.

 

But it's pretty clear at this point that he shouldn't.

[CRA]

Hurney gave Charles Godfrey a big contract because Rivera liked him. That didn't work out so well.

Gettleman himself has made clear on more than one occasion that he doesn't make decisions unilaterally. He always consults with Rivera as well as the scouting staff when it comes to draft and free agency. In season the scouts are all out doing their scouting, so it's pretty much just he and Rivera.

He has overridden Rivera in some cases, with Godfrey likely being a prime example. Also Fua, Munnerlyn and others.

We'd probably be better off if he actually listened to Rivera a lot less.

Godfrey was a Hurney guy. Old era Fox/Hurney guy and Hurney always treated them too well. Foolishly well. Not sure we can put that on Rivera.

Yeah, Gettlemen listens to everyone. Doesn't mean he does what Ron wants off the record

Not sure Ron doing PC caoch talk translates over to all that. Ron talks up everyone. All time time. Just what he does.

[SZ James (banned)]

Everyone wants to find effigies to burn and jobs to be lost and players to be cut and rabble, rabble, rabble.

It boils down to one very simple reality: the front office (assign blame between coaches and GM as you wish) lacked the fiscal resources to address all areas of need and decided that the offensive line could hold up if necessary. It was a fatal gamble and they lost. There aren't any real schematic answers that fit with the offensive roster we currently have: we lack the offensive line to establish the running game and play action schemes our core philosophy is built around and other, less line-intensive schemes such as a dink-and-dunk WCO are entirely unsuited to the receiving corps we have.

So keep in mind between all of your hell-raising that before amputating every limb off the patient one should wonder if their broken ankle might be the cause that keeps them from walking.

[fieryprophet]

Again, see above.

 

Per their own words, the roster decisions made this offseason were made using a collaborative approach, with Gettleman having the final say.

 

The year before Gettleman, the interim GM was Brandon Beane.  At that point, Rivera was the guy with final say, so he's had input on player decisions for quite a while now.

 

But it's pretty clear at this point that he shouldn't.

 

Assuming it was a collaborative approach, then Gettleman still deserves just as much blame. I work as a programmer and I no matter how much I value my colleague's input, if they write bad code I'm not going to allow it into the program if I know that it's going to reflect poorly on me. Talent evaluation should include the ability to evaluate the quality of other people's evaluations. After all, a GM has to hire and fire scouts.

[fieryprophet]

 

 

 

LOL Image saved!

 

[Millioso7]

doing the same thing over and over expecting different results is ....INSANITY......we must bench harper and byron bell