Doubt inside BofA Cam is the future?

[TheMaulClaw]

In a night full of bad plays, perhaps the worst was the first and goal run that lost 8 yards.

 

Newton was staring at a defense that the play could not possibly succeed against and yet, there was no audible, no time out, and, to add insult to injury, instead of just cutting is losses to a yard or two, he danced around and lost 8.

 

Of course 99 percent of the Huddle will blame Shula for the call...hilarious.

 

Shula is responsible for the crappy play call which is equally as bad as Cam choosing not to audible out of it.  Shula sucks and  Cam is playing like poo. 

 

The great thing about QB runs is the qb can still throw the ball away.

[PantherFanOne]

Nobody doubts Cam's upside, I am doubting his will.  If you ask me, there's no question DA would have more success with this offense than Cam is having right now simply because he is more fundamentally sound.  

 

 

I am a big Cam Newtron fan but he is still a work in progress. Granted, Cam is currently playing on a average, to below average Panthers team and isn't getting a lot of help but he has a ways to go to be a complete and elite type NFL quarterback,to think otherwise would be foolish.

I am hoping Cam becomes more fundamentally sound and a more accurate passer,with  a better supporting cast. The time clock is running and running fast concerning his future.A  big monetary decision will have to be made soon,pertaining to this very fact.. The ball is in Cam's court, so it will be up to him and him alone,to prove he is worthy of the large contract a franchise  quarterback is entitled to.

[TheMaulClaw]

You do know the one time he ran backwards thursday night was the only TD the Panthers scored right?  No you don't because you are one of the most ill informed and least knowledgeable posters on this board.

 

I also remember last week when he did that he threw an ill advised pick.  I can recount multiple times when we've been in fringe fg position only to take a ill advised sack instead of throwing it away. 

 

You do realize we only scored one td right?

[TonyN]

Shula is responsible for the crappy play call which is equally as bad as Cam choosing not to audible out of it.  Shula sucks and  Cam is playing like poo. 

 

The great thing about QB runs is the qb can still throw the ball away.

 

Shula is far from perfect, but no OC can possibly know exactly what another team is going to do defensively near the goal line.

 

And the right defensive call can make a play call impossible near the goal line. Even if the defense's tendencies have been analyzed correctly.

 

There either had to be an audible on the play, a timeout called (how often do you see offensive redzone timeouts...OFTEN, because they are such critical plays !!!) or as you say an attempt to just cut his losses and move on. Newton looked at an impossible situation and made it worse by trying to do too much himself. But that is opening up another can of worms altogether.

[beastson]

Cam has been essentially the same player since day 1. Sure he has improved in some areas, but he is basically the same guy.

 

His completion percentage went down in his second season, went up slightly last season with fewer attempts and a different style offense and have dropped back to year 1 levels this season.

 

His NFL passer ratings have been virtually identical in each of his first three seasons.

 

He finished 15th in 2011.

He finished 15th in 2012.

He finished 16th in 2013.

 

Your contention that all QB's with bad offensive lines struggle is just not true. I am not even going to mention names, but some of the most pressured QB's are absolutely lighting up the league this season. And it's not a new phenomenon.

 

Posting GIFS as if they prove something about a players overall play is just silly. I can post GIFS that make Geno Smith look like a Hall of Famer.

 

But you make a good, if unintended point about Newton. He needs a lot of time to go through his progressions. And when he is going through his progressions he is virtually immobile. Once he moves, even a little it, it is generally to take off down the field.

 

I don't expect you to actually do it, but watch some football this weekend and notice how the great ones move in the pocket, yet remain focused downfield and can hang in the pocket and deliver the football at the last second and do so with great accuracy. And watch their heads. Watch how quickly thy go through their progressions. Then go back and watch Newton.

 

I nearly crapped my pants on Cam's very first throw of the preseason. He stared down his receiver and delivered the football right into the hands of a defender. He was going to go with his first read come hell or high water. And when his first read is not there...things can get really interesting in a bad way. 

 

You keep posting his numbers in comparison to other QBs which isn't proving anything especially since personnel and offensive systems play a part. Cam rating went 84 to 86 to 88. That's what matters. Our team is not the same last season. We've lost guys in the receiving department and offensive line. That's not a contention. A QB under pressure with a good oline is different than one vs under pressure with a bad oline. I mentioned gifs to show you maybe you show watch cause all you do is post stats. What we have is not a pocket so stop comparing him to the great ones who actually spent money on their oline and doesn't have a online full of undrafted free agents. Our pocket caves in while Cam waits for slow receivers to finish their routes. He goes through his reads quickly. If you go to that Norwell thread I mentioned Zod posting you'll see Olsen was the first option and Cam came waited for Benjamin to get open to throw. That's not going through progressions slowly, that's waiting for something to open. How about you make a point in our receivers drop vs those other "great QBs" receivers. But you defend Rivera who's 28-28-1 and supposed to be a DC yet his defense is ranked bottom half. Go figure

 

[Ruff]

In a night full of bad plays, perhaps the worst was the first and goal run that lost 8 yards.

Newton was staring at a defense that the play could not possibly succeed against and yet, there was no audible, no time out, and, to add insult to injury, instead of just cutting his losses to a yard or two, he danced around and lost 8.

Of course 99 percent of the Huddle will blame Shula for the call...hilarious.

Jordan gross mentioned that specific play on the radio cast. He mentioned how both offensive tackles were in a 3 point stance, giving away that the designed run was a run, instead of a QB draw, from the get go.

He said, and I quote, "that's on the offensive line. That's offensive line 201, advanced offensive line"

[Swaggasaurus]

Well first off they been in the league for 10+ years so that comparison is completely off base. 2nd they're all in passing offenses which leads to 3rd, they're offense is a complete 180 of ours

Nice excuse, you do see the difference though right? Not many qb in the league that look less alert pre snap that Cam. His mental chamber appears jammed to me. He just doesn't look alert, I wish he did, I really really do. Maybe he doesn't believe in the coaching staff but goddamn boys he's not there mentally, his head isn't turning and he is sleep walking up to the line. Personally I think he may make it, with a Gus Malzahn type of sideline read audible. He's a rare physically gifted guy

[TonyN]

 A QB under pressure with a good oline is different than one vs under pressure with a bad oline.

 

 

Several QB's are putting up monster numbers this season with bad offensive lines. Watch the QB most despised by the "Huggers" play this weekend. If the game is anything like his first 8, he is going to be under constant duress, have a bad running game and yet will almost certainly throw for 300+ and quite possibly will throw for 400+. All while attempting fewer passes on a percentage point basis than the Panthers. And there are others. Watch a Chargers game, for instance. Did you see little Colt McCoy throw for 300 against Dallas while under a heavy pass rush all night? It is done all the time.

 

[TonyN]

Jordan gross mentioned that specific play on the radio cast. He mentioned how both offensive tackles were in a 3 point stance, giving away that the designed run was a run, instead of a QB draw, from the get go.

He said, and I quote, "that's on the offensive line. That's offensive line 201, advanced offensive line"

 

I understand exactly what Gross is saying, but even if the tackles gave away the designed run, then Newton still has to recognize the fact. He cannot give away 8 yards. You can blame the tackles for tipping the defenses, but you can't blame the tackles for not calling an audible or a time out or throwing the ball away. The play should not have been run once the Saint defense got set. But it was.

[Matthias]

 

And how do you know he's not?

 

You're just assuming, right?

 

All I can go by is what we see in games.  If he's saying it in practice, we should be seeing it on the field.

 

What skills???

The same ones that haven't netted him a starting job since.. ..????

And not for a lack of trying.

Every off-season he goes in FA and every off-season he comes back to be Cam's backup.

 

The skill set that DA has is of the traditional pocket passer.  Basically DA only concentrates on throwing the ball, and mastering that part of his game.  With Cam, he's all over the place in terms of skill set.  Yet he hasn't honed in on dissecting defenses with his arm.  I imagine DA would have more success because he will throw a quick route, alleviating pressure off this poor line.  All called plays for Cam seems to have receivers running long routes. (Plus no 5 receiver sets)  It's not a matter of DA is better than Cam, is just that DA has a better mastery over the fundamentals.  

 

I am a big Cam Newtron fan but he is still a work in progress. Granted, Cam is currently playing on a average, to below average Panthers team and isn't getting a lot of help but he has a ways to go to be a complete and elite type NFL quarterback,to think otherwise would be foolish.

I am hoping Cam becomes more fundamentally sound and a more accurate passer,with  a better supporting cast. The time clock is running and running fast concerning his future.A  big monetary decision will have to be made soon,pertaining to this very fact.. The ball is in Cam's court, so it will be up to him and him alone,to prove he is worthy of the large contract a franchise  quarterback is entitled to.

 

Of course as long as Rivera is at the helm, Cam is done in my opinion.  There's no way Cam develops under Rivera.  For that reason, and unless we can get Cam an offensive guru to work with in the off-season, we should trade him while he can be traded for a high price.

[beastson]

Several QB's are putting up monster numbers this season with bad offensive lines. Watch the QB most despised by the "Huggers" play this weekend. If the game is anything like his first 8, he is going to be under constant duress, have a bad running game and yet will almost certainly throw for 300+ and quite possibly will throw for 400+. All while attempting fewer passes on a percentage point basis than the Panthers. And there are others. Watch a Chargers game, for instance. Did you see little Colt McCoy throw for 300 against Dallas while under a heavy pass rush all night? It is done all the time.

 

 

Cam already did that. He did that his first 2 seasons. And our offense changed. You seriously think he can't if we were in a passing offense and you gave him a little more than 3rd string options? And you mentioned several QB's, name them please. And show me where they do it on a consistent basis. The Chargers? Yea and Rivers didn't put up huge numbers in those losses either. The Cards defense, KC and Denver

[Kevin Greene]

 

 

 

 

Of course as long as Rivera is at the helm, Cam is done in my opinion.  There's no way Cam develops under Rivera.  For that reason, and unless we can get Cam an offensive guru to work with in the off-season, we should trade him while he can be traded for a high price.

 

 

For years on the Huddle "Pre Cam" it was quite popular to say it was pointless to draft a Top Tier QB as this organization was incapable of developing the asset.

What Cam did his 1st year under Chud's tutelage was nothing short of amazing. 

After Chud's departure the focus has been on Defense by the staff and the Offense has suffered mightily.

Now this staff may not only be incapable of developing a QB anymore and is actually contributing to the positions regression.

[WOW!!]

All I can go by is what we see in games. If he's saying it in practice, we should be seeing it on the field.

The skill set that DA has is of the traditional pocket passer. Basically DA only concentrates on throwing the ball, and mastering that part of his game. With Cam, he's all over the place in terms of skill set. Yet he hasn't honed in on dissecting defenses with his arm. I imagine DA would have more success because he will throw a quick route, alleviating pressure off this poor line. All called plays for Cam seems to have receivers running long routes. (Plus no 5 receiver sets) It's not a matter of DA is better than Cam, is just that DA has a better mastery over the fundamentals.

Of course as long as Rivera is at the helm, Cam is done in my opinion. There's no way Cam develops under Rivera. For that reason, and unless we can get Cam an offensive guru to work with in the off-season, we should trade him while he can be traded for a high price.

Da's "Pure pocket passing" numbers aren't as good as Cam's "running QB'S" passing numbers.

Cam has better TD to int's ratio

Better comp %

Better passer rating

then DA has over their careers.

So at what point do the facts get you to admit how idiotic this opinion is??

[Mr. Scot]

For years on the Huddle "Pre Cam" it was quite popular to say it was pointless to draft a Top Tier QB as this organization was incapable of developing the asset.

What Cam did his 1st year under Chud's tutelage was nothing short of amazing.

After Chud's departure the focus has been on Defense by the staff and the Offense has suffered mightily.

Now this staff may not only be incapable of developing a QB anymore and is actually contributing to the positions regression.

Fair question, though: Who deserves the most credit for Cam's early success?

Is it Chudzinski the offensive coordinator or Shula the quarterback coach?