When a student fails, do you blame the teacher?

[rayzor]

We can blame both right? The one thing I won't do is blame the GM. There are offenses with less talent getting the job done. There are defenses with way less talent getting the job done.

It's clear to me we don't have the personnel to play our soft coverages with a 4 man rush. Adapt or die.

i blame him for the decision to spend 20% of our cap on two players (which happens to be half the money spent on D). you can't do that kind of thibg because it's not sustainable, it provides no balance, and more than likely it's going to come back and bite you in the ass, which it did.

the money spent on hardy could have been used to add much needed talent or at least depth to the OL and secondary. $13mil could have gone a long way, but we blew it.

not crazy about that second round pick, either.

[KARASMATIC444]

I think you Have guys that are in experienced playing. You coach them up but they need time on the field to learn to not make mental mistakes. That is the issue with having too many young guys. you get a team that is not consistent. You can try to draft guys you think are mentally ready, but you cant get all of your team that way. That is why we are still starting some vets that are under performing. I dont think we want to go all inexperienced at once. Adding guys like brown to WR would give us youth and speed but there will be a trade off somewhere im sure.   Just like Norman hes got skills but you cant trust him mentally. The idea of bringing Cason/Harper was to have guys that knew what to do, the problem is they look like they dont.

[Tub of Goo]

Teacher, I remember taking Calc in high school and I'm anything but a math wiz, but god damn that woman was amazing and everyone in the class passed.

It's Rons job to see who needs more time with specific adjustments, who works better here or there, playing to their strengths.

Just like everyone doesn't learn the same way, not everyone will excel in the default scheme. It's like they're trying to jam a square block into a circular hole, this isn't 2013, ADJUST.

[Diehardpanther02]

Depends on the students work ethic and prior records.

[ThinkAboutIt]

Not all students are equally smart or skilled. Some students require more attention, different techniques. Sure it can be the teacher's fault. Usually it's the politicians' fault in some way.

[CW703]

we could use captain as our slot cb this year.

I'm honestly more prone to blame the coaches, even if it's a talent failure.

 

Rivera is just not a good talent evaluator.  He puts entirely too much faith in guys like Byron Bell and Captain Munnerlyn.  Much as I love guys who are all hard work and give 110% on every play, sometimes they're just not good enough.

 

[rayzor]

if you run a business and your business starts failing, do you blame the hourly employees or the managers?

imo, this is a better analogy. and i would still put more blame on management for 1) not getting the best possible employees you can afford and 2) not managing your resources so that you can be as productive as you need to be. it's up to management to have the right employees in the right places with the right tools, education, direction, motivation, and proper focus.

[Snake]

And see, this is where my point about evaluation comes in.  He chose the OC.

 

I actually do think most of the position coaches on the team are half decent (iffy on Matsko) but again, personnel evaluation comes into play.  Head coaches do that way more than coordinators do.

 

Its true he chose Shula and his plan worked last year. Our offensive numbers were down but the defense was up. This year the defense is not holding there end of the bargain and its why we are losing games. Its hard to say if River boat Ron is still there because most of our losses this year have come with a blowout. I think a coach is only good as his coordinators and Rivera and any coach should know this, that was the downfall of Fox in Carolina. Sorry this post has run for so long but to conclude the past has shown when given the right personnel Rivera can make a playoff team and I think that's the root of my argument.

[Snake]

if you run a business and your business starts failing, do you blame the hourly employees or the managers?

imo, this is a better analogy. and i would still put more blame on management for 1) not getting the best possible employees you can afford and 2) not managing your resources so that you can be as productive as you need to be. it's up to management to have the right employees in the right places with the right tools, education, direction, motivation, and proper focus.

 

Interesting that you brought this up because I would blame the idea or implement. If a business fails its because you are not doing what is needed to bring in the customers. That could be Personnel, management, or simply a poor game plan.

[rayzor]

Interesting that you brought this up because I would blame the idea or implement. If a business fails its because you are not doing what is needed to bring in the customers. That could be Personnel, management, or simply a poor game plan.

i was thinking more along the lines of production. if you aren't meeting objectives, whose fault is it if the objectives are reasonable?

[SpeedOFLight]

I am rewatching the game this morning, trying to see what the heck is happening with the offense. Going play by play, rewinding, watching again.

 

More times than not, the failings of the offense aren't at the hands of less physical talent, surprisingly. There are more missed assignments than physical mistakes. And not just small things either. Like when Clay Matthews lines up on the line and Nate Chandler does not even consider blocking him before he gets to J-Stew in the backfield. This is just a complete misunderstanding of what he should do out there, start to finish.

 

So let me ask you this.... do you blame the players? Obviously they are pro athletes that had to have succeeded at a college level. Apparently they can be taught. Or do you blame the coaches for not being good enough teachers in the film room and on the field. Are they not preparing the team adequately enough mentally. 

 

What say you?

 

 

It is really hard to pin point but coaching plays a big deal. I will use a basketball argrument if I may. The Lakers had all the talent in the world but could not get deep in the playoffs until they got a good coaching staff around them (P. Jackson) What I find frustrating is when we get multiple too many men on the field calls and when we extend an opponents drive off a silly offside call. That falls a lot on coaching. We are not discipline at this stage. Guys are not maintaining gaps and seem to be out of position. These are basic concepts such as tackling that we are failing to do.

[raleigh-panther]

There is a difference between being a pro athlete and trying to take a natural D Lineman and viola, suddently have that person become

a OT in the NFL.

 

Look at Thomas Davis, natural safety at Georgia, the Panthers decided to make him a LB, it took several years before he adjusted to that and that was on the defense.  

 

He was not going from d to o.

 

I read where only 5 of the 7 remaining Panthers Oline were drafted, that gives you a pulse check right there of the 'hard workers' but not talented athletes on the field.

 

i believe it was Gettleman who said 'you can't teach 6'5" ' when referring to Benjamin, not but Benjamin withtout the talent to run the route tree isn't worth much.

 

The Panthers are refusing to adjust their scheme to what those players can do, but, frankly, I'm not sure what they can do.

 

They need to find 3-5 schemes on both sides of the ball that they can run and just do it.  If they can't find at least 3-5 schemes then the coaching staff and GM are failures for fielding a team of players that either a) don't fit the scheme  can't grown into the scheme  c) do not have the physical skills for the scheme  or d) worse yet, the scheme needs to be thrown away.

 

I don't care if they run the wildcat a 100 times a game if they are successful and can score.  I don't care what they do, but for the love of god find something that offense can do...anything.

[Snake]

i was thinking more along the lines of production. if you aren't meeting objectives, whose fault is it if the objectives are reasonable?

 

I guess what Im trying to say is Production is based on a idea with a reasonable goal. If any part of that process fails you will suffer. I think we have a poor plan with poor execution. What worked last year is not working this year because of a different situation. Last year our defense was aggressive because they had the speed to make up ground and were good at tackling. This year we are the exact opposite.

[cbully]

i say we need a new ol- coach and OC