The Traditional QB Still Rules the League

[Pox 08]

rabble rabble rabble traditional rabble rabble Peyton Manning rabble rabble Cam Newton rabble rabble inferior.  rabble rabble need new qb, rabble rabble.

 

 

That the breaking down points of the initial argument?

[Thorrez]

I've watched the Broncos, Patriots, Colts, etc continue to compete at the top of the league year in and and year out. They have franchise QBs, but what is special about them is their best talent is picking apart defenses with their arm. Sitting back, manipulating DBs, and picking them apart. They also know how to move within the pocket, as to avoid good pass rushers. My biggest fear with Cam is that he will never fully learn how to do this. That he either leans more toward his athletic side, or is pressured by everyone (media and fans alike) to be the QB who throws for 200 and run for 100. I'm tired of this crap because it is the traditional pocket passer that competes year in and year out. Vick had his moments, but his team never competed every year.

I'm being real. I love Cam as much as anyone else. I also know he can throw the ball. Yet I don't think he will ever become a franchise pocket passer. Have yall seen the 360 he did today in the pocket, running slam into a defender for the team's first sack? I just don't know if I want to invest 160 million into one guy, if this is what I should expect for the rest of his career. In any case, I want a traditional guy back there. The primarily athletic QB still hasn't come in and changed the game just yet. I'm open to the idea of trading Cam at the end of the season for a bunch of picks.

The Bengals just sank $120 into (traditional) Andy Dalton! I get your point, but it is not like the options we have are Newton or Manning. It's Newton or very likely 10 years of suffering through the gabberts/hoyers/Anderssons/Glennons of the league.

When your QB is good enough to win with, you pay the man and do not look back.

I know it is October and that you are German. So I think you need to lay off the maas a little ;-)

[OneBadCat]

Cam is a pocket passer with legs. People don't understand this. He's not in the same pigeon hole as Colon Crappernick. 

[beastson]

I dont get why these threads get created when we lose

 

Last game, Bears game where was it?

[Luke Cage]

There's nothing worse than being on the wrong side of a paradigm shift. Traditional QBs still run things right now, but only because the legitimate dual threat qb is still a pretty new concept.

But yeah let's trade Cam for picks. That would be a fail on the level of Kodak ignoring the digital revolution, blockbuster ignoring Netflix, the British deciding not to mass manufacture the repeating rifle they tested during the revolutionary war, western nations initially insisting the tank had no place on the battlefield.

History is littered with the corpses of dead people, corporations, and countries that were on the wrong side of a paradigm shift. Adapt or fail and die.

[Matthias]

 

The Bengals just sank $120 into (traditional) Andy Dalton! I get your point, but it is not like the options we have are Newton or Manning. It's Newton or very likely 10 years of suffering through the gabberts/hoyers/Anderssons/Glennons of the league.

When your QB is good enough to win with, you pay the man and do not look back.

I know it is October and that you are German. So I think you need to lay off the maas a little ;-)

 

The Bengals have made the playoffs for three straight years.  They haven't won anything to be sure and Dalton is not better than Cam, but I'm just saying.  Now I wouldn't have given Dalton that contract, and a lot of us would agree.  The Bengals are mostly in the mix every year because they have 2-3 times the talent on their squad compared to the Panthers.  Will we be able to build that kind of team around Cam once he gets his contract?  We had money in the off season to work with, and instead of building the team up, we dumped all that cash into Hardy's bank account.  How's that looking for us?  Perhaps even if Hardy was playing, we would still look bad on defense out there.  Hardy wouldn't have enough time to get to the QB with Godfrey being on the job in our secondary.  When it comes to Cam, if we pay him, will we have the money to get him an effective O-line?  I don't know, plus I don't have confidence in this management staff to get the job done anyhow.

 

 

I dont get why these threads get created when we lose

 

Last game, Bears game where was it?

 

I've been consistent with my idea about trading Cam due to the money he will be due. (You can see my thread in the draft forum.)  Yet looking at this team struggle so much this year, the fact that we don't compete year in and year out, it frustrates me as a fan.  I'm looking for Cam to take that next step, and it's not happening as quickly as I thought it would.  I'm sick of all the read option talk and designed runs.  Now with the terrible O-line the staff has put out there, it's hard for me to make a definitive assessment.  Still, too much is made of his athleticism.  I'm sick of it.  He probably going to pass for barely over 3,000 yards.  The winning formula still centers around having a QB that will dissect defenses with his arm.  Again it's frustrating because of the talent around him, it's hard to judge.  The way I see it, we are approaching the threshold of maximizing on Cam's talents.  We are either going to give him a big contract and hope he becomes a Tom Brady with legs, or trade him for a bunch of picks and building a team that a young QB could win with (like a young inexperienced Brady did in 2001).  The crappy talent Cam is working with makes it hard to project what kind of career he is most likely to have.  Yeah he has the skills to be great, but that doesn't mean he will be.

[MeatSoda]

where coffee fails, utter stupidity will be sure to give you that necessary kickstart in the morning.

 

 

 

 

 

(mother of god this is the dumbest thing i've ever read. and i teach freshman composition).

[mav1234]

Brady was 24 in 2001.  Cam is 25.  Calm down.  He's still going to grow & learn.  It's not just time in the league.  Not trying to compare the two, because I think the NFL and the teams they play for are vastly different.  We still have a young QB on our roster, let's use him.

 

I don't know how anyone can look at how our team has played this year and think Cam Newton is the primary problem that needs fixing.  Cam can improve, but so can every player on our roster, and he has played very well given many of the situations he's been put in. Cam's got it.  Now we gotta get people around him to protect him.

 

[Matthias]

I'm not attacking Cam necessarily (as far as blaming him for our losses or anything like that), I'm just saying the winning formula still seems to be the the QB who dissects defenses with his arm.  Cam can do that, but it's not what he's known for.  He's still more used to running with the ball.  I go back to something I believe Avant said during preseason.  People were getting on Avant and Cotchery for not showing up in the first couple of games.  Said they weren't getting open for Cam to get them the ball.  Avant stated that they were getting open.  Then I go back to Derek Anderson's play in the first game against the Bucs.  We all know Anderson doesn't have the legs to run like Cam, so he primarily relies on throwing the ball.  With pretty much the same O-line, Anderson had success.  Yes, it was against the Bucs, but they are a pro team.  I wish I could see Anderson back out there, and see what he could do now, so I could adequately compare someone who primarily depends on throwing the ball versus Cam who also can lean on his legs to get yards.

 

I'm sorry guys but I can't just blindly say give Cam the mega deal, if he's still learning and developing.  Even with all the skills he has.

[Silent Majority]

You point makes zero sense, but I will play along. If not Cam, then who? What's your plan for moving forward?

[Matthias]

You point makes zero sense, but I will play along. If not Cam, then who? What's your plan for moving forward?

 

If we trade Cam, the plan would be to build the best possible team we can build, and play with Anderson behind center.  He already has a connection with Benjamin, so that will be maintained.  Look at the 49ers.  With that team, Alex Smith lead them to the NFC championship, a game they should have won, but lost due to bad calls.  If Smith was still on that team, they would still be contenders.  DA is better than Alex Smith in my opinion, who by the way is winning with the Chiefs, another team with talent.  So building a great team is the plan.  We can develop a guy to take the helm once Anderson's career is over.

[*FreeFua*]

Lmao Derek Anderson. Can someone just lock this stupid thread

[Peppers90 NC]

All QBS have different pros and cons. My only criticism of the scrambling QBS is there are high injury risks and they get slower when they're older while defenses just keep getting faster.

While they are mobile, they don't necessarily move as well in the pocket.

[Matthias]

Also again I want to reiterate that Cam has shown he can throw from the pocket.  I've seen one pass in particular, during the Ravens game, that the phrase "thread the needle" wouldn't give it proper justice.  The problem is he is yet to make that his signature.  He's still developing etc.  That concerns me if we are going to give him all that money.  Now look at all the top teams right now....

 

 

Broncos

Patriots

Packers

Lions

Cardinals

Cowboys

Chargers

Ravens

Colts

49ers

Eagles

 

Most of these teams field a guy who's specialty is passing the ball.  Then you look at teams who are always in the mix....

 

Broncos

Patriots

Packers

Steelers

Saints

Giants

Eagles

49ers

Seahawks

Colts

 

 

Again, guys who specialize in the passing game.  Some of them have some athleticism, but you will never hear them talking about read options or design runs.  Cam still lean on these things, and it's still a question if he will eventually be known more for his passing than his running.