Cam v. Luck - The "Build Around" Philosophy

[Oudaman90]

Again different offenses. We like to run out the clock on offense. This doesn't give Cam alot of time to put up alot of points or yards. Another reason is Cam missed a game, and still has almost 1000 passing yards.

Furthermore, the Colts running game may not be great but they're also not 31st in the league like us either. And they can at least run it effectively, like the Eagles game. They don't even try to run it as much as we do and they're still better.

[Oudaman90]

I'm not sure what point you are trying to make here?

I'm making the point that we could win a championship with a more offensive approach. Being offense first isn't nearly the death sentence alot around here claims it is.

[thefuzz]

I'm making the point that we could win a championship with a more offensive approach. Being offense first isn't nearly the death sentence alot around here claims it is.

 

It most certainly isn't, however you don't have to have Cam going 29/34, 366 and 3 TD's every game to win big.

 

 

I want more offense, I want some tackles, I want Stew and DWill off this team, I want some young legs behind Cam to help him, I want a new OC, but I don't want to mortgage the future of this team by signing scrub LT's in the offseason for too much money.

 

 

We need to have a wait and see approach to this team, we have been up and down for so long, I'm ready for some stability.

[TonyN]

Again different offenses. We like to run out the clock on offense. This doesn't give Cam alot of time to put up alot of points or yards. Another reason is Cam missed a game, and still has almost 1000 passing yards.

Furthermore, the Colts running game may not be great but they're also not 31st in the league like us either. And they can at least run it effectively, like the Eagles game. They don't even try to run it as much as we do and they're still better.

 

 

Interesting you should bring that up. Actually the Colts DO try to run more than the Panthers:

 

The Panthers are passing on 61.41% of their offensive plays this season.

The Colts are passing on 59.35% of their offensive plays this season.

 

The difference is effeiciency. The Colts have many more passing attempts because they are extending drives and staying on the field. And the Colts are doubly handicapped because they have a bad defense which tends to keep their offense off the field.

 

They are sticking with the run though, even when it doesn't work. Case in point: Thursday night they averaged 2.7 yards per attempt...dreadful, yet they kept at it, rushing 35 times.

 

I can just imagine the howls of disapproval that sort of playcalling would elicit from this fanbase.

[ecu88]

TonyN and bias. This is the guy that had the full support of PFFL. That should tell you everything you need to know about TonyN

Teeray just stop, the Luck slurping by TonyN won't change. I can barely hear your reasoning over that noise he is making.

[davos]

This is actually a good discussion as much as some people may hate the comparison.  When you have consecutive years where a crazy highly touted QB is drafted #1 to reboot a franchise you'll get comparisons SO GET OVER IT.  

 

On to discussion--a few points:

 

-As a organization, the Panthers set themselves up in a bad transitional spot between Fox, New CBA, Hurney, Rivera, and DG.  That falls on JR.  

 

-DG has actually carved ourselves $7 million in cap space.  We have that sitting there right now.  I'm happy we're being patient for so we can find a long term solution at some key positions.    (I understand we need to re-sign Cam and Luke)

 

-On top of it, take Hardy off after his tag and we're looking at the VERY least $20 million+ in space going into 2015 without restructures, releases, etc.  

 

-With that in mind, there is NO reason we shouldn't be able to add linemen and more weapons this coming offseason.  

 

-This Hurney talk and excuses should cease to be.  Stewart, CJ, and Williams are the only terrible contracts left.  We dealt with Godfrey already.  We're still paying for Beason and Anderson though :/

 

-Williams and CJ are arguably expendable this coming offseason and we could get even more cap room.  Yeah, they'd have penalties, but CJ would actually save us and DW would be a slight hit ~1 mil.   

 

-I'm not liking some of DG's decisions but they're understandable minus our OL situation and Smith.  He now has plenty to work with and Hurney's echo is extremely dissipated.       

 

-So in this regard, DG should be under a microscope this coming offseason.  Nothing is changing between now and the end of the season so I'm hoping we step it into full gear and tear the league apart.  Bottom line--We have the talent to bring us far when things are clicking RIGHT NOW.      

 

-Luck is a damn good QB, Newton is a damn good QB.  

 

 

 

 

[ecu88]

Colts lead the NFL in numbers of offensive plays run per a game, Panthers 23rd. Colts avg 5.8 a play and the Panthers avg 5.2. Wow not much different. The philosophies are different, Colts pass attack vs Panthers run first then pass. Hey TonyN, take the love Luck somewhere else this is a Panthers board homies.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/plays-per-game

[ecu88]

By the way, Luck decision making is actually not as good as first thought.

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/stat/pass-intercepted-pct.

Colts 20th, Carolina 2nd.

Luck 2.42 td to int.

Newton 5 td to 1 int.

Cam is doing more than TonyN realizes. Cam is hurt and Shula is the OC. But I still hear mmmm from TonyN.

[TonyN]

  Bottom line--We have the talent to bring us far when things are clicking RIGHT NOW.      

 

 

 

 

That statement is a doozy.

 

It's also the truth. If the Panthers can keep a real NFL running back on the field and the defense rounds into form, there is no reason this team can't win and win big NOW.

[ecu88]

That statement is a doozy.

It's also the truth. If the Panthers can keep a real NFL running back on the field and the defense rounds into form, there is no reason this team can't win and win big NOW.

It's the franchise curse, one winning season then loosing/breakeven the next.

[teeray]

The Colts are leading the NFL in total offense, passing offense and scoring offense and doing it with a bad offensive line.

As poor as Carolina's offensive line has looked at times this season, it can be argued that Indy's has been just as bad.

The Colts are averaging 3.7 yards per attempt with Bradshaw and Richardson.

The Panthers are averaging 3.6 yards per attempt with Williams and Stewart.

The Colts are giving up 1.5 sacks and 5.5 QB hits per game.

The Panthers are giving up 2.4 sacks and 5.2 QB hits per game.

This is not a one year abberration, either.

Last season the Colts offensive line surrendered 109 QB hits, 3rd most in the entire NFL.

The Colts' starting center, the QB of the offensive line, is an undrafted rookie free agent named Jonotthan Harrison...

No matter what way you slice it, the Colts have a poor offensive line. And yet...

(I apologize for a mistake in an earlier post. Actually last season the Colts went 5 and 4 against teams with winning records. That's a .56 win percentage. Extrapolated to an entire season, the Colts would have gone 9-7 had they played every game against teams with winning records.)

4 of their 5 losses came against teams that did not make the playoffs.

7 of their 11 wins came against their weak division and the Raiders. They got smoked by the Rams. That leaves 8 games against teams with a winning record (I believe) so I think they went 4-4 against teams with a winning record. Unless I am missing something.

They are a good football team, but if they played in a better division they would hover around an 7-11 win team. And not a perennial double digit win team that has division locked up before week 1 even starts.

They had some good wins and some not impressive losses like losing at home to the average Dolphins and getting demolished by Zona and the Rams (without Bradford)

They are a solid team, that benefits with having a bare minimum 6 games against garbage QBs every year.

[Oudaman90]

It most certainly isn't, however you don't have to have Cam going 29/34, 366 and 3 TD's every game to win big.

I want more offense, I want some tackles, I want Stew and DWill off this team, I want some young legs behind Cam to help him, I want a new OC, but I don't want to mortgage the future of this team by signing scrub LT's in the offseason for too much money.

We need to have a wait and see approach to this team, we have been up and down for so long, I'm ready for some stability.

I agree. I just think while we're waiting for that we shouldn't expect Cam to put up guady numbers like Luck, or use that to say Luck is better. Indy may not be the best team on the league but they are geared more towards offense than us.

[ecu88]

4 of their 5 losses came against teams that did not make the playoffs.

7 of their 11 wins came against their weak division and the Raiders. They got smoked by the Rams. That leaves 8 games against teams with a winning record (I believe) so I think they went 4-4 against teams with a winning record. Unless I am missing something.

They are a good football team, but if they played in a better division they would hover around an 7-11 win team. And not a perennial double digit win team that has division locked up before week 1 even starts.

They had some good wins and some not impressive losses like losing at home to the average Dolphins and getting demolished by Zona and the Rams (without Bradford)

They are a solid team, that benefits with having 6 games against garbage QBs every year

Kinda reminds me of New England. Crappy division = almost guarantee 6 wins in a division that has no solid/consistent teams

[ecu88]

Gross yards per pass, Cam and Luck the same

7.6

http://www.teamrankings.com/nfl/player-stat/gross-yards-per-passing-attempt